Can a herniated disc get worse?

Hello; In July/08 my MRI showed a 'slightly' to 'Mild' herniated disc at L5/S1. However, a few months after the MRI my symptoms started to become much worse. For example the lumbar symptoms went from bothering me about 40% of the time to bothering me about 80% ... for lack of a better example or words at this time. quite frankly i'm not too fond of the 1 - 10 scale. however, i suppose - pain wize in regard to just my low back the pain before july i would say was prob like a ... uuuhg, um 4/5 but the months following to current the pain can get to a 8/9 and even 10 esp. w/out meds. Soooo, i'm wondering if anyone knows if a herniated disc can become worse ... uh, more herniated? or can it slip out more? i've tried to google it and have tried webmd to no avail and i cannot seem to get a straight answer from my gp.
i went through a period where my back would "go out" and i was told this may have been caused by my muscles have'n become weakend. however, i do exercise and stretch out on a daily basis. some days i'm able to exercise more than others but at least each day i do something to stay active. granted i'm not able to use free weights any more. but i do squats but maybe this isn't enough to keep my back in shape. i wonder if maybe an other MRI may be in order.
i have been looking forward to a spineal implant. yet i wonder if it's still a good idea. if it's placed in my back w/out a recent picture and it stops pain - which is our bodies sign something is wrong - then i'm a bit concerned the implant may cover up a progressive problem. suppose i'm worried bout permanent damage. mostly because i have had loss of bladder control at night while sleeping twice in the last six weeks - give or take. not to mention 3 of the last six injections i received made my bladder let go in the middle of the night.
any ideas or thought would be greatly appreciated. i just want so much to get better - to feel better and to just get back to my life. thank you for your time. be well. thank you, kara

Hi Kara, I know how

Hi Kara,
I know how devastating this problem can be. How can one live a life when one can barely move? How can one even carry on a normal conversation when one wants to scream in pain 24/7?
I too had a disc herniation at L5/S1. This was 18 years ago, but I'll never forget it. I did it straining to pull out a tree root, though I think the disc wall may have been weakened in a horse-riding fall as a child and so predisposed to rupture.
When doctors talk about a 'herniated disc' one of two scenarios may have occurred. Either the entire disc has shifted out of position, or the disc wall has ruptured and the gel-like contents squeezed out. You might want to ask your doctor to clarify which has occurred in your case.
In my case, the disc had ruptured and 40% of the contents had squeezed into the spinal canal, more so on the left, and so too my symptoms were more acute on the left. The source of my pain was this irregular lump of gel-like disc material sitting in my spinal canal and pressing on the spinal nerves running down the canal. Of course, any movement, bending in particular, made the pain more acute.
Over time, weeks and months, IT DID GET WORSE before it got better. I was told this was because the gel material starts to harden, then calcify, then is finally absorbed by the body. When the material is hardening and calcifying, it is also shrinking. But then again, a hard sharp-edged object pressing on nerves will produce more pain than a softer, more rounded one. So pain symptoms can be quite variable.
For me, my pain was intense for about 18 months then started to improve steadily. From 2-3 years I was functioning reasonably again, and by 4-5 years basically pain-free. An MRI at 5 years showed my spinal canal completely free of disc material.
Almost twenty years on now, I do get aches and pain in that region having lost a good portion of disc content plus ageing related degeneration, but nothing like the pain at the time of herniation. I still have mild left foot drop, and this is probably due to permanent damage to some of the nerves lining the canal when the hernia was present.
A neurologist I saw several years after, told me that there may have been an option in the first six months for the gel material to be suctioned out while still soft. This is much less invasive of course than surgery, and with fewer but still some risks.
This was kind of disappointing, but not altogether, because my body did resolve it in time without the need for any invasive procedure or any risks.
With a malpositioned disc, the treatment is different. Physical therapy or surgery is needed to get the disc back into position and stabilised.
I suggest you find out for sure if you are dealing with a malpositioned disc or a ruptured disc, and then study spinal anatomy - there are some wonderful sites on the internet - it helps if you understand what is going on.
I'm sorry this has happened to you. I feel for you (I remember). But if its a ruptured disc, there is a chance it WILL get better of its own accord... worse, then better Smiling
Spinal fusion was the next operation offered me by an orthopedic surgeon, but I declined. In my case, I made the right choice.
Loss of bladder control is a significant symptom and please make your doctor aware of this if he isn't already. Some new nerves might be being compressed. The material deposited by disc rupture can change shape or reposition (depending on what stage you're at), or further disc content can be squeezed out. It may be worth asking your doctor about another MRI to see where things are at.
One thing I will say is that certain physical therapy made it worse. The best thing for me was heat packs, anti-inflammatories and avoiding any movement that further compressed the nerves and irritated them more so. Whenever I didn't observe this, I would have 2-3 days of particularly acute pain. The best physical therapy was the gentlest of pilates-type exercises to strengthen my body overall, making sure to never do anything that caused an acute increase in pain at L5/S1.

(No subject)

thank you for all that info!

thank you for all that info! i did not know about the hardening and being reabsorbed into the body. i was in an auto accident 2/21/07 and that was when my back began to hurt really bad. i complained about it for well over a year but it fell on deaf ears because i had an MRI in 04 which showed a perfectly normal spine w/no probs whatsoever. then the dr i had passed away from cancer and i was switched to a new dr who is all about back probs. so, at last he sent me for a new MRI. it showed the L5/S1 disc ... ummmm how do i explain it ... uh, it looks sorta like a raindrop flowing out'a where the disc ought to be and lay'n next to my spinal cord but not really touching the cord. my MRI was done in july/08 and oddly, (just my luck), enough my pain got even worse in the following months. so after a dozen or so injections i asked for an other MRI because i thought if it has become worse that just maybe surgery could take care of the problem. but he just wouldn't order an other MRI. he wanted to do Radio Frequency Lesioning. which i just do not want because my GYN did one during one of my Laparocopy's and it helped for a while but after a couple yrs i had back pain which i had never had before. and a doctor on webmd told me the nerves could have started to regrow (??) but can only grow just so far and that i probably developed scar tissue on the nerve endings - causing pain. the idea of my gyn was to cut down on pain in my uterus - which it did fer a while but i swore i would never have it done again. in the long run it wasn't worth the back pain i ended up having. this is one reason my ex doc and i began to have problems. i agreed to the implant and i actually wanted it really really bad. but he said i never agreed to the implant. my word against his. any way, because my back pain feels worse than ever i was just wondering if it is possible for a herniation to become worse. i'll tell ya, i have a lotta causes of pain but this back pain by far takes my breath away ... it is unrelenting. at least w/the Endo and IC i know my period will stop and i know the IC flare will eventually calm down. but my back hardly ever eases up. my ex doctor forgot, i guess, that i have a dozen or so other causes of pain and even though the "high" dose of meds weren't helping my back as much as he thought they should they were helping my other conditions up 90%. on the dose i was taking i hardly ever felt my bladder pain. but like i said, he's a back dr and not interested in any of my other conditions. well, i see a new dr at a new clinic this Wed. i read some pretty aweful rates about this new dr - so, i'm wicked nervous! i just wanna get back to my life. part of me feels like my dr gave up on me cuz of the dose of meds i need to be comfortable and because of the extra heavy presence of the DEA and their theory that anyone who is on an amount beyond what the drug companies recommend that there must be diversion involved. it kills me that because a few people abuse the system that i must suffer. of course this is something that is effecting everyone and not just myself. he also wanted to take away all of my meds because i have stomach problems. he said my system was shutting down because of the meds. turns out i was just having a severe IBS flare and it calmed down soon as i stopped taking 800/1200 mg's of Advil. any way, thanks for the info. and do you think i ought to get an other MRI? my lumbar back is so swollen i cannot even see those sacral dimples at all! which on me have always been very defined. i swear, i feel like i am gonna end up w/a stomach ulcer.
thanx again, take care, kara

thinkingallowed61 wrote: Hi

thinkingallowed61 wrote:

Hi Kara,
I know how devastating this problem can be. How can one live a life when one can barely move? How can one even carry on a normal conversation when one wants to scream in pain 24/7?
.

Wow. That was a really great post. I'm a recovered back pain sufferer as well and I can relate to much of what you have written. I do know that it was hard for me to find websites which really explained what was going on with my back, and the doctor's explanations were all extremely vague. I don't recall ever understanding it as well as I do right now because of your post. Thank you.
To the original poster-I hope you do find some relief soon. It's just so depressing when you have unrelenting pain. I would definitely let the doctor know about the bladder thing.

I agree that answer to my

I agree that answer to my question is Awesome !!! Very thankful she took the time to explain so much. None of my many docs ever told me a herniated disc can get better. It's sooooooo nice to know. Bit of hope. And thank you for your kind thoughts. I hope my new doc will be kind and helpful. I'm just worried because 4 out of 5 people say he has a terrible bedside manner. But since i know ahead of time - maybe i can be extra alert & win him over w/my warm & charming ways ... Lol.

KaraAnn wrote: I agree that

KaraAnn wrote:

I agree that answer to my question is Awesome !!! Very thankful she took the time to explain so much. None of my many docs ever told me a herniated disc can get better. It's sooooooo nice to know. Bit of hope. And thank you for your kind thoughts. I hope my new doc will be kind and helpful. I'm just worried because 4 out of 5 people say he has a terrible bedside manner. But since i know ahead of time - maybe i can be extra alert & win him over w/my warm & charming ways ... Lol.

t

KaraAnn, I spoke too soon. My back pain came back just this past weekend and I have a feeling it's going to get worse before it gets better. I have quite a few questions about herniation vs bulging and I'm going to do some research on it. One thing I would like to find out is if you take an anti-inflammatory before the bulging gets too bad, will this act as a preventative measure? Does the inflammation occur as a cycle? Will it inflame to the point of herniation etc etc. I am so scared that I'm going to end up with the pain that I had 2 years ago.

Stomach exercises, especially ones which target your core muscles, are important. I think I'm going to shoot for a little bit every day. Some good core exercises are the Plank http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ar2iRusnnc ; the Side Plank http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqzrb67Dwf8 ; The Bird Dog pose http://www.healthline.com/hlbook/dia-bird-dog.

I would advise against doing anything that really makes your back scream and I would be cautious doing yoga twists. I also do the Cobra http://www.yogajournal.com/poses/471 but very slowly and definitely stop if there is pain.

Good luck.
I'm so unhappy about my back right now, I could scream.

I'm sorry to hear that D.

I'm sorry to hear that D. All I know is that nurses who injure their backs seem to more susceptible to re-injury.

wishandaprayer wrote: I'm

wishandaprayer wrote:

I'm sorry to hear that D. All I know is that nurses who injure their backs seem to more susceptible to re-injury.

Janice...I ended up in ER on Thursday. I did the stupidest thing EVER, and it had to do with my eyes. I wonder if my back hurts now because I put Hydrogen Peroxide in my eyes? Sad

Daenerys

Daenerys wrote:
wishandaprayer wrote:

I'm sorry to hear that D. All I know is that nurses who injure their backs seem to more susceptible to re-injury.

Janice...I ended up in ER on Thursday. I did the stupidest thing EVER, and it had to do with my eyes. I wonder if my back hurts now because I put Hydrogen Peroxide in my eyes? Sad

Jawdropping! ??? Puzzled Jawdropping! Puzzled

wishandaprayer

wishandaprayer wrote:
Daenerys wrote:
wishandaprayer wrote:

I'm sorry to hear that D. All I know is that nurses who injure their backs seem to more susceptible to re-injury.

Janice...I ended up in ER on Thursday. I did the stupidest thing EVER, and it had to do with my eyes. I wonder if my back hurts now because I put Hydrogen Peroxide in my eyes? Sad

Jawdropping! ??? Puzzled Jawdropping! Puzzled

New contact lens solution. sigh

That must have hurt! I can

That must have hurt! I can see how you would wrench your back on that one. Sad

Hope you are o.k.

hey there you two ... sorry

hey there you two ... sorry your back pain has returned!! hugs fer you!!
And WOW! hydro in your eyes?? ummm ya that must'a hurt! how are your eyes? do they still hurt? or are they feeling better?

i find quick unexpected movements hurt a wicked lot. like sneezing, laughing suddenly, turnning my hips too quickly. when i feel well enough to do a little work - i Must take it real slow, ice for 15 mins every now and then and so on.

i have other issues aside from the herniation in my back like osteoarthritis and bursitis - sp? and i also have shingles which when in a flare and for weeks,months and even up to a year after makes my tailbone scream 24/7. when i was able to take two breakthrough pills/day it worked the best for me because i have break through pain 24/7.

i gotta rest. been online for a while. i'll check back w/ya'll. thanx for the links!! pray'n for both of you! btw, 2mar is my big day!! i go see the new pain doc ... Eeeeeeeek!! oh gosh i hate this. wish i could find a family dr who would prescribe but send me out for injections/PT etc. a doc who'll stand by me and actually care.
be well, kara

Daenerys wrote: I would

Daenerys wrote:

I would advise against doing anything that really makes your back scream and I would be cautious doing yoga twists. I also do the Cobra http://www.yogajournal.com/poses/471 but very slowly and definitely stop if there is pain.

Good advice in my book. Unfortunately, physical therapists, who don't know they're dealing with a herniated disc or the type of herniation (coz no MRIs been done yet), can recommend exercises that are inappropriate and make the pain worse.

One important thing to remember is that the phrase 'herniated disc' covers several (I think three) different scenarios. One type of situation is the 'bulging disc', the other is where the disc wall has ruptured and disc material has squeezed out into the spinal canal - they call it 'sequestered' material. To my knowledge, its only sequestered material that hardens, calcifies and eventually gets absorbed. And yes, that it what happened in my case.

KaraAnn,if you can live

KaraAnn,if you can live without the back surgery,I wouldn't do it UNLESS absolutely necessary!! Wishing you the very best. Huge hugs. Smiling P.S. Kara,there use to be quite a few docs here that would answer questions,not so much anymore. Sad

thinkingallowed61

thinkingallowed61 wrote:

Good advice in my book. Unfortunately, physical therapists, who don't know they're dealing with a herniated disc or the type of herniation (coz no MRIs been done yet), can recommend exercises that are inappropriate and make the pain worse.

Not only PTs but chiropractors, as happened in my case.

Kara: "i find quick unexpected movements hurt a wicked lot. like sneezing, laughing suddenly, turnning my hips too quickly. when i feel well enough to do a little work - i Must take it real slow, ice for 15 mins every now and then and so on.

i have other issues aside from the herniation in my back like osteoarthritis"

I sneezed this morning coming down the stairs and yelped at the same time. The smallest of movements can really have a powerful impact. I walk my dog twice a day and right now, I am keeping my stomach tensed almost the entire time, and I think I'm gliding more than walking.

Here's a short write up with 3 important things to do/try to decrease inflammation: http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/bulging-disc.shtml
I have the therapy ball at home and I'm bouncing on it as I write. :)I think I'll try playing the piano too. lol Have to get that ice gel. Hope everything went well at the docs but remember, when it comes to the effort required to heal, it's all up to you.

&&&&& saying some prayers 4

&&&&& saying some prayers 4 you. Smiling

i wish the healing was all

i wish the healing was all up to me. if i could do injections to myself i would. if i could do surgery myself i would. if i could order a new MRI myself i would. if it was all up to me - i wouldn't be in pain.

BTW. both docs today were Not helpful. at least once was nice. bye

I'm so sorry to hear that

I'm so sorry to hear that Kara,don't give up. Please keep searching,I KNOW for a FACT ALL doctors are NOT bad. Smiling I know with my pain,it will never go away totally. Sad I just try to think of nice things,and of course do what my doc says to ease it up.Huge hugs. + I pray,pray,pray. Eye-wink That helps trendmendously.I praise God. Smiling P.S. Have you heard of this book? The BackSmart Fitness Plan: A Total-Body Workout to Strengthen and Heal Your Back

KaraAnn wrote: i wish the

KaraAnn wrote:

i wish the healing was all up to me. if i could do injections to myself i would. if i could do surgery myself i would. if i could order a new MRI myself i would. if it was all up to me - i wouldn't be in pain.

BTW. both docs today were Not helpful. at least once was nice. bye

You are absolutely right KaraAnn. I think I said that with a bit of sarcasm because I know that I felt that nobody was helping me when I was in so much pain.
I don't know what happened but try to hang in there. It *can* get better, even without meds or injections.

Daenerys wrote: KaraAnn

Daenerys wrote:
KaraAnn wrote:

i wish the healing was all up to me. if i could do injections to myself i would. if i could do surgery myself i would. if i could order a new MRI myself i would. if it was all up to me - i wouldn't be in pain.

BTW. both docs today were Not helpful. at least once was nice. bye

You are absolutely right KaraAnn. I think I said that with a bit of sarcasm because I know that I felt that nobody was helping me when I was in so much pain.
I don't know what happened but try to hang in there. It *can* get better, even without meds or injections.

i have lived w/all this long enough to know it doesn't get better w/or w/out meds. geesum crowfish. would i put myself through this if that were the case? i'm in pain. not Nuts. but thanx

You're right KaraAnn,that's

You're right KaraAnn,that's why I said I wouldn't do any back surgery unless I know 100% that it will work. My doc said NO BACK surgery would help. I don't believe he would lie to me. Smiling I hope you have a good day.

this is the Major thing my

this is the Major thing my ex doc and i disagreed upon. he wanted to have me cut open w/out having new films done before hand. my last mri was july/08 and i had been telling him that i had been feeling a change in my pain and a change in the location. but he just wouldn't listen. i saw a new doc the 17th. he doesn't prescribe. but i like him a wicked lot. he actually wants to get to the 'bottom' (lol) of why i still hurt so much. and all in all ... all i want is pain relief till the cause(s) of my pain are resolved. any way, he thinks i have a broken tailbone! ?? wouldn't you think my MRI would have shown such a thing? i dunno, gotta look into rather it was included. i dunno what to think ... so confused. i would love to be off meds cuz my pain has been resolved. not because someone gave up trying to find the cause(s). ugg. i gotta go make more calls. ttul be well & thanx!

ps. how do i add those face's?

KaraAnn wrote: this is the

KaraAnn wrote:

this is the Major thing my ex doc and i disagreed upon. he wanted to have me cut open w/out having new films done before hand. my last mri was july/08 and i had been telling him that i had been feeling a change in my pain and a change in the location. but he just wouldn't listen. i saw a new doc the 17th. he doesn't prescribe. but i like him a wicked lot. he actually wants to get to the 'bottom' (lol) of why i still hurt so much. and all in all ... all i want is pain relief till the cause(s) of my pain are resolved. any way, he thinks i have a broken tailbone! ?? wouldn't you think my MRI would have shown such a thing? i dunno, gotta look into rather it was included. i dunno what to think ... so confused. i would love to be off meds cuz my pain has been resolved. not because someone gave up trying to find the cause(s). ugg. i gotta go make more calls. ttul be well & thanx!

ps. how do i add those face's?

Just above where you post comments there are blue highlighted words "textual smileys".

Why is everyone opposed to surgery? If I were in pain I would want a permanent solution, not pain pills the rest of my life. I don't understand. (colon, typed puzzled, colon)Puzzled

gagal wrote: KaraAnn

gagal wrote:
KaraAnn wrote:

this is the Major thing my ex doc and i disagreed upon. he wanted to have me cut open w/out having new films done before hand. my last mri was july/08 and i had been telling him that i had been feeling a change in my pain and a change in the location. but he just wouldn't listen. i saw a new doc the 17th. he doesn't prescribe. but i like him a wicked lot. he actually wants to get to the 'bottom' (lol) of why i still hurt so much. and all in all ... all i want is pain relief till the cause(s) of my pain are resolved. any way, he thinks i have a broken tailbone! ?? wouldn't you think my MRI would have shown such a thing? i dunno, gotta look into rather it was included. i dunno what to think ... so confused. i would love to be off meds cuz my pain has been resolved. not because someone gave up trying to find the cause(s). ugg. i gotta go make more calls. ttul be well & thanx!

ps. how do i add those face's?

Just above where you post comments there are blue highlighted words "textual smileys".

Why is everyone opposed to surgery? If I were in pain I would want a permanent solution, not pain pills the rest of my life. I don't understand. (colon, typed puzzled, colon)Puzzled

There are no guarantees with surgery, and sometimes you are left permanently paralyzed, but sometimes it is worth the risk. All I would say is that before I had any more surgery - ever - I would want a second opinion, and I would want to ensure that the reports/tests were all read and communicated properly so that I would know the risks and benefits.

But, then again, doctors can lie about the results, and you never really know, and the CMPA just defends them right or wrong; nothing matters as much as reputations.

I would try everything else before trying surgery, but there is a chance of getting addicted to pain meds, and I have to wonder if that would be worse.

oh my gosh ... lol ... if

oh my gosh ... lol ... if it's not one thing it's an other ...

okay, i am not against surgery ... even though of the 16 people i know who have had back surgery only one was better off for having the surgery. the other 15 fell victem to "Faild Back Surgery" or they were injured further and one friend was even left w/out use of his right leg due to some gosh aweful mistake made dur'n the surgery ... oh but even soooo ... if i had even a slight chance to get better from surgery i would do it in a heart beat... i would do anything at any given moment. however, like i said : i want a second opinion, recent up to date films and well geee dats all. not a lot to ask considering the percentage of failed back surgery.

okay now - meds .... this is how i feel ... So fricken what if someone becomes dependent or addicted ... when or if either of those things happen ... there is treatment for both of them ... just because the possibility exist doesn't seem logical enough to deny pain relief for a current problem. there are many different medical situations where one thing must be done to manage the current problem even though an other may be created. ever watch Dr. House?? lol ... and besides, so what if someone needs or gosh forbid Wants pain meds for the rest of their life?? your body - should be your choice. you can do just as much harm to your body by a poor (american) diet. i just personally cannot understand why people are so against the use of a god given 'suppliment' to aid us through our maladies. when a patient and doctor have an excellent relationship pain meds can aid in recovery of loss of enjoyment of life and i believe everyone of us have the right to persue happiness - whatever that entails for each individual. i suppose the medical fields lack of knowledge regarding the topic of pain management has lead to a fear - in general - of pain meds. i read a study by a doc in germany who stated that a diet high in anti-oxidents can minimize the detramental effects of many organic substances 'we' consume ...
i suppose the whole med thing doesn't bother me because i have been on and yes Off pain meds since i was 11 yrs old.

by noooo means am i try'n to belittle anyone for their opinion. seems to me the collective "reality" really has no place when it comes to certain topics. for everyone ... i believe there is one reality - the way each person experiences life - and how each person does so is what matters to them. we all have our own opinions and there's nothing right or wrong about them ... "It is what it is"
be well all

still can't put faces in ... i click on one and nut'n happens ??

KaraAnn wrote: still can't

KaraAnn wrote:

still can't put faces in ... i click on one and nut'n happens ??

Kara, click on "[Show All]" to the right of the list of smileys. A second display of smileys will appear which are fully functional.

Thanx mic ... There i

Thanx mic ... Smiling There i think it worked.

Btw ... Seems as though i may have found a 'nice' dr (what a contradiction of words these days) but the thing is he's in NY!! Eerg!! Guess i'll stay w/friends in CT. That'll be weird - hvn't been to CT in a long time. My "father" lives there. We haven't spoken in well over ten yrs. He thinks if my faith were strong enough i would be pain free. So the pain is my punishment for not being faithful enough i guess. Any way - yup i'd rather have my dad than pain. I've lost a lot due to pain. I wld have been a great mom too but nope no kids either. Oh well - but geee it's so worth all those pills ... Um, no not really - not at all.

Well my kitty Scooter aka scoot dogie dog lol he acts more like a dog. He's huge! Almost all black w/a little white on his neck - any way - he snuggles w/me at nite & he's get'n jealouse of the phone. Lol so i gotta give him the attention he's beg'n for. Lol

nite nite Uhhh um, 2:20am nite nite. Lol be well all
lol? Hmmm i've always heard of "cracking up" - think i've made it there officially!

KaraAnn..... I've have 4

KaraAnn.....

I've have 4 lumbar surgeries and 3 of them have been fusions. When one has a ruptured disk the gold standard
is not an MRI, but it is a diskogram. They inject dye into the disk and then do a CT Scan to tell where the
dye has run to see the extent of the damage. Tons of people have herinated disks, but don't have any pain and
can live with it for their life. When a doc determined if you need surgery it is your pain level and how it
complicates your life.

Here is a fabulour web site with tons of spine info: http://www.spineuniverse.com/

Before any competent doc would recommend surgery they would first have you go to PT, try epidurals and time
for it to heal. Run from any doc who suggests surgery on the first visit.....best of luck.

hey golfnut ... thank you

hey golfnut ... thank you for the website and the info. my ex doc never mentioned a diskogram. so, if an other doc talks about surgery i'll know to as about one Smiling

i do have one friend who has a herniated disk and it doesn't bother him at all.

i am now wondering if i have been misdiagnosed. true, there's no deny'n i have a herniated disc. even i can see it clear as day on my mri results.

i had been wondering if my mri included my tailbone because a new doc i just saw on the 17th thinks mine may be broken or fractured or may have a nerve impingement. so, i just checked the cd i was given of my mri and nope no tailbone included. monday i go in for a set of xrays to check. it's odd - i dunno if i want it to be broken or not. if it is - it would explain a lot - if not it'll just be frustrate'n to no end and if it is broken i can be all like ... "In Your Face!!" to my ex doc! lol ...

i just wanna get back to my life. it's been since january and i am missing my life already. thank god my boyfriend has been able to care for my mom!! i dunno what she would do w/out him. she has premature alzhiemers and chronic pain. she and i have interstitial cystitis and other things.

ttfn, hugs kara

i just had to blow off some

i just had to blow off some steam. i was just going through my medical records and noticed my ex doc put in my records for our last few visits that i was paranoid, having hallucinations and was showing suicidal idiation!! ??? whaaat?? i never ever ever said anything or did anything that would lead any normal person to think those things about me. and one day he had kept me waiting for over two hours and i got bored and made a hangmans knot out of the mini blind string and as he walked in i said ... oh, you're just in time ... and we both laughed and then after the visit he said ... i like your sense of humour !! it's dark but funny!! and that was the Only time i ever said anything at all like that and it was supposed to be funny cuz it was my way of saying he took so long that i almost died of boredom!!

this is what i am talking about!! we as patients Must have the right to sign off on our records!! and if a doc feel a patient is suicidal then that doctor Should be talking to their pateint about the concern they have.

ohhhhh my gosh i am so freak'n mad. these are my records that are going to new doctors!! wt frig ?? i am so beside myself. my poor mom still has him as a doctor or i would write a letter to his boss. and my poor mom is wicked afraid of him now. plus as a parent she really wants to kick him were it counts for leaving me to suffer in pain.

okay, sorry. i feel better now. besides this is an old thread and i'm pretty sure no one will read this.
be well kara

KaraAnn wrote: oh my gosh

KaraAnn wrote:

oh my gosh ... lol ... if it's not one thing it's an other ...

okay, i am not against surgery ... even though of the 16 people i know who have had back surgery only one was better off for having the surgery. the other 15 fell victem to "Faild Back Surgery" or they were injured further and one friend was even left w/out use of his right leg due to some gosh aweful mistake made dur'n the surgery ... oh but even soooo ... if i had even a slight chance to get better from surgery i would do it in a heart beat... i would do anything at any given moment. however, like i said : i want a second opinion, recent up to date films and well geee dats all. not a lot to ask considering the percentage of failed back surgery.

okay now - meds .... this is how i feel ... So fricken what if someone becomes dependent or addicted ... when or if either of those things happen ... there is treatment for both of them ... just because the possibility exist doesn't seem logical enough to deny pain relief for a current problem. there are many different medical situations where one thing must be done to manage the current problem even though an other may be created. ever watch Dr. House?? lol ... and besides, so what if someone needs or gosh forbid Wants pain meds for the rest of their life?? your body - should be your choice. you can do just as much harm to your body by a poor (american) diet. i just personally cannot understand why people are so against the use of a god given 'suppliment' to aid us through our maladies. when a patient and doctor have an excellent relationship pain meds can aid in recovery of loss of enjoyment of life and i believe everyone of us have the right to persue happiness - whatever that entails for each individual. i suppose the medical fields lack of knowledge regarding the topic of pain management has lead to a fear - in general - of pain meds. i read a study by a doc in germany who stated that a diet high in anti-oxidents can minimize the detramental effects of many organic substances 'we' consume ...
i suppose the whole med thing doesn't bother me because i have been on and yes Off pain meds since i was 11 yrs old.

by noooo means am i try'n to belittle anyone for their opinion. seems to me the collective "reality" really has no place when it comes to certain topics. for everyone ... i believe there is one reality - the way each person experiences life - and how each person does so is what matters to them. we all have our own opinions and there's nothing right or wrong about them ... "It is what it is"
be well all

still can't put faces in ... i click on one and nut'n happens ??

Opioid addiction is a serious problem, and can have a tremendous negative impact on a patient's life. Once a person is addicted to opioids, it is frequently difficult for the person to stop.

Usually disc surgery is reserved for leg dominant pain. A herniated disc , if it is responsible for pain, will cause predominantly leg pain symptoms. A surgical procedure (such as a discectomy) isn't usually very successful for back dominant pain.

If there is doubt about the cause of pain, a pre-operative / provocative discogram may be useful.

chrisaldridge

chrisaldridge wrote:
KaraAnn wrote:

oh my gosh ... lol ... if it's not one thing it's an other ...

okay, i am not against surgery ... even though of the 16 people i know who have had back surgery only one was better off for having the surgery. the other 15 fell victem to "Faild Back Surgery" or they were injured further and one friend was even left w/out use of his right leg due to some gosh aweful mistake made dur'n the surgery ... oh but even soooo ... if i had even a slight chance to get better from surgery i would do it in a heart beat... i would do anything at any given moment. however, like i said : i want a second opinion, recent up to date films and well geee dats all. not a lot to ask considering the percentage of failed back surgery.

okay now - meds .... this is how i feel ... So fricken what if someone becomes dependent or addicted ... when or if either of those things happen ... there is treatment for both of them ... just because the possibility exist doesn't seem logical enough to deny pain relief for a current problem. there are many different medical situations where one thing must be done to manage the current problem even though an other may be created. ever watch Dr. House?? lol ... and besides, so what if someone needs or gosh forbid Wants pain meds for the rest of their life?? your body - should be your choice. you can do just as much harm to your body by a poor (american) diet. i just personally cannot understand why people are so against the use of a god given 'suppliment' to aid us through our maladies. when a patient and doctor have an excellent relationship pain meds can aid in recovery of loss of enjoyment of life and i believe everyone of us have the right to persue happiness - whatever that entails for each individual. i suppose the medical fields lack of knowledge regarding the topic of pain management has lead to a fear - in general - of pain meds. i read a study by a doc in germany who stated that a diet high in anti-oxidents can minimize the detramental effects of many organic substances 'we' consume ...
i suppose the whole med thing doesn't bother me because i have been on and yes Off pain meds since i was 11 yrs old.

by noooo means am i try'n to belittle anyone for their opinion. seems to me the collective "reality" really has no place when it comes to certain topics. for everyone ... i believe there is one reality - the way each person experiences life - and how each person does so is what matters to them. we all have our own opinions and there's nothing right or wrong about them ... "It is what it is"
be well all

still can't put faces in ... i click on one and nut'n happens ??

Opioid addiction is a serious problem, and can have a tremendous negative impact on a patient's life. Once a person is addicted to opioids, it is frequently difficult for the person to stop.

Usually disc surgery is reserved for leg dominant pain. A herniated disc , if it is responsible for pain, will cause predominantly leg pain symptoms. A surgical procedure (such as a discectomy) isn't usually very successful for back dominant pain.

If there is doubt about the cause of pain, a pre-operative / provocative discogram may be useful.

"Opioid addiction is a serious problem, and can have a tremendous negative impact on a patient's life. Once a person is addicted to opioids, it is frequently difficult for the person to stop".

Well lets see, if they are in great pain, then that is the PROBLEM.

"Mr Jones I realize you are in agony, and I am going to leave you in it. Because I don't want to risk you getting an addiction".

Chris, What happened with you, were you scared as a child by a pain pill? Was the boogey man under your bed an addict?

You willingness to leave people who are paying you to help them, to suffer, really bugs the hell out of me.

I am in great pain 24/7, I bet you I could lay my hands on heroin in about 30 mins, have I ever taken it, no.

So what I can get I will not take, and what I will take I can not get.
Just super!

look, i have dealt with pain

look, i have dealt with pain since i was 11 yrs old. i have been on and Yes OFF pain meds ever since!! I have NEVER had a problem stopping pain meds when the cause of pain has been either drastically reduced or when it has been ablated one way or the other. in fact i had a doc in college who wanted to keep me on meds when i didn't need them any longer and i had to find a different doc who would take me off the meds!!! both are long retired. i would love to be able to not need the meds right now because certain people make "ya" feel like a loser and an addict just because "ya" need them in order to work and to just live life. i am not a stupid or ignorant person. i have seen addiction and i know what it looks like and what it does to people. if i ever thought i was addicted i would go get help. just like i am in REAL WICKED PAIN and i am trying to find help. and rather some docs like it or not there are some people who have so much nerve damage that they will need pain meds for the rest of their lives and i do not think it is any different than needing any other medication for life. opioid-phobia is doing a lot of harm to people in this country and it is wrong and harmful. you can't put the horse before the carriage and expect good results. i use to work with dual diagnoses teens. again, i am not ignorant. i am sorry the fact that i need pain meds offends so many people but it is what it is and it is what allows me to go to work, clean my house and to take care of my ageing mother.
this isn't a personal attack. but the fact that all that was taken from everything i said was a few words about addiction just erks me.
you know what is difficult to stop? pain. pain is difficult to stop. just because there is New evidence and New ways to treat pain doesn't negate the fact that pain meds can be just as effective.
uuuuuhg!

hey there; yes i do know

hey there; yes i do know there is a problem. however, to punish everyone is wrong. i am currently working on a New Patient Bill of Rights and in it i am including the rights of doctors. my hope is that docs will feel safer and will not be held responsible for what a patient does or doesn't do w/what the doc has provided.

as far as the problem of diversion. there's an ancient chinese (sp?) saying ; "Society Prepares the Crime and the Criminal Commits it" ...

i strongly believe a more cost effective means for dealing w/the diversion prob would be to allot more $$ every month for people on social security/disability. thank goodness i worked in construction most of my life and i get an okay amount every month but i know a lot of people who get less than half of what i receive. i know one lady who gets only 620/mo !! ?? she's not in pain but has other issues. any way, who the heck can live on that?? all people want is to survive. look at Plato's Republic - our gov could learn a lot from that book. in my humble opinion. i believe most all people are Good and that they would prefer to live honest and good lives. though, is it not human nature to survive? the $ that is spent on going after docs and this "War on Drugs" could house, feed and gosh forbid cloth people. any way, i could go on 4ever bout this topic.

i have read study after study that states Less than 1% of chronic pain patients actually become addicted to pain meds. i have also read a few articles where research has shown that Diversion by docs/patients amounts to Less than 8% of the meds on the street. the other %'s have been found to be pills made over seas and imported, from organized crime and from "other" countries. So, i say ... what gives ??

i'm not 100% certain, but i would think if i were addicted i would be running "downtown" to find a alternative "means" rather than calling every doc from here to there and back in order to receive appropiate care. i may be wrong..... Nahhhhh, lol - i have seen other people in my position and it is Crazy crazy what they would do in my position! all in all i know myself and i know my "Maker" knows me and my heart and i know he's sad for what i am going through and through prayer and being humble, honest and true that i will find a doc who will take proper care of me. and i am not willing to do anything to compromise my relationship w/my maker. i just need to keep my faith.

sorry fer da long post. be well. and thanx 'Special' for your kind words!

Just bored n in pain. Try'n

Just bored n in pain. Try'n to take my mind off hurt'n beyond words.

Any way - i was just reading a bunch of wicked scarey stuff online re: docs b'n arrested and all sorts of horrible stuff bout "The War on Pain Patients and Docs. It's hard to believe - that it's happening in America & my Northern Buds up there'ah in Canada. It's Not humane at all.

When i feel better again, and i have faith god will lead me to a healer sooner or later. I Really have my work cut out for me up on Capital Hill!!! I was just think'n ... I don't feel like i have any fight left in me, i dunno if i can do this. BUT - You know what? Rather i am tired or not -there are way too many people who are suffering. And i can't stop. I gotta push forward.

I/We will prevail. We will end up w/a real Bill of Rights. A Bill that will actually protect patients from harm. And will protect honest docs from going to jail.

Okay. Thas all fer now.
Be well everyone. God bless us all! Whatever god means to you : ) PS : a good site RE: opioids can be found at ...
Opioids Past Present Future. Google or windows live box search. Hugs k

Hi KaraAnn, I'm so sorry for

Hi KaraAnn,

I'm so sorry for all your pain and misery. I surely don't know the answer. I wish there was an easy answer to this. I used to take a lot of pain pills following a 1996 AA which resulted in 3 herniated discs, but those have gotten better over the years, and I rarely have to take anything for it now. Usually just if I do something that aggravates it. But when I was taking them, I know that my PCP was closely scrutinizing what I was taking.

I have known a few of people who became severely addicted and it's not been pretty. One young woman who was doctor hopping had a stroke and died. I think she was probably around 40 years old. A man moved in across the street from me, with his aged father. The son had a rotator cuff surgery and after that never worked again (I don't think). He used to come over fairly often telling me that he ran short on his pain pills and was in severe pain and couldn't get his refill until Friday, and could he borrow some of mine. Then he would say I'll pay you back................and mine are better than yours anyway...........I get the
*&^(&%*^, and you only get the *^)^, you know?? Mine are the oblong ones, and he would literally be drooling!!!! This was later. I mean he wasn't that obvious at first, and several times I did give him some of my pills. Then I would find out that he was doing the same with anyone in the neighborhood who had any painpills. Then I found out that he was going to several doctors, at least one that I heard it was easy to get opioids from.

He used to call me from his cell phone saying that he was somewhere and couldn't make it home and would I go over and get his little dog and keep it until he got home on Wednesday. His father had died at that point, and he was living in that house alone. He would also come over and borrow money occasionally. These all should have been (or were) red flags to me.

Finally he was evicted. I knew he was going to have to move, but he called me one day and asked me to go get the dog and he would be back the next day. I did that, and he never came back, leaving me to try to find a home for his dog.

I think in the end he was seeing at least (that I know of) three different doctors. By then it was about 2 years since his rotator cuff surgery.

Point is, how can doctors be expected to make distinctions between patients who are in pain and using their medicines responsibly, and those that are not? I wouldn't want to try to do it. How? There must be a way. One doctor couldn't have known that Wally (not real name) was seeing 2 other doctors for opioids.

hi heartthrob - how many

hi heartthrob - how many yrs ago did this happen to you w/your neighbor? cuz from what i understand there is now, with the exception of about 12 states, a state to state, pharmacy to pharmacy Monitoring Program which lets hospitals, pharmacy's, docs and so forth know who is on what, how much and how often. i'm certain all states will soon be a part of this program. however, i think it needs to be Amended (sp?) - it's not exactly perfect either. but at the very least i believe it is putting a stop to "doctor shopping".

either your (poor) neighbor was addicted. or maybe he was just undermedicated. ?? could be either and Yes certainly - how does a doc, a friend or family member know which is which??

i know from having earned my ba in psy that there are personality test which can be used to help docs determin certain aspects about a person. this is currently expensive testing. however, it could be a helpful tool.

also, my mom was recently diagnosed with "early onset cognative decline" ... the aricept helps. but at first she wouldn't take it every day and would get bad again. So, my brother who has been a cna for bout 20 yrs at a nursing home knew about these medication dispensers. they can be really expensive. he bought mom this Dispenser that is Timed and Locked. she cannot get into it "Early" and it has an alarm to notify her when she needs to take her meds.

So, i was thinking - just maybe if a doc has a patient who is a "high risk" patient. the doc could prescribe one of these dispensers, tell the patient they need to purchase one or the doc could rent 'em to patients. and then either Only the Pharmacy or the Doc would have the Key or Code to open the dispenser. it would also be tamper proof and have a bar code so that a patient wouldn't be able to break it open and replace it w/an other one just like it.

i know this seems extreme - but i think it would be or could be a great tool to help people. people who may me predisposed to addiction type behavior and so forth.

also, other measures could be taken. mandatory counseling to help aid the patient in dealing w/the depression. pill counts i believe are a great way to help people stay on track - and make 'em mandatory. if a patient travels far to see their pain doc, than maybe their GP could be willing to let the patient go in for pill counts?

i know a lot of answers come down to $$ but it seems to me that having our government find the $$ to subsidize these Dispensers would be a worthy cause. i better go. i could write forever. i'm a very verbose person. drives my mom nuts. be well and thanx for share'n.

He moved away about 6 months

He moved away about 6 months ago. Maybe the system you speak of is monitored through the persons insurance co? Maybe then he paid cash? I don't know. I just know he did it.

I'm fairly certain he was 'into' other stuff as well.

heartthrob wrote: He moved

heartthrob wrote:

He moved away about 6 months ago. Maybe the system you speak of is monitored through the persons insurance co? Maybe then he paid cash? I don't know. I just know he did it.

I'm fairly certain he was 'into' other stuff as well.

The DEA certainly monitors prescriptions, particularly those for opioids. A patient can end up on an exception report when they simply exceed 90 pills per month.

MicOnTheNorthShore

MicOnTheNorthShore wrote:
heartthrob wrote:

He moved away about 6 months ago. Maybe the system you speak of is monitored through the persons insurance co? Maybe then he paid cash? I don't know. I just know he did it.

I'm fairly certain he was 'into' other stuff as well.

The DEA certainly monitors prescriptions, particularly those for opioids. A patient can end up on an exception report when they simply exceed 90 pills per month.

How is that monitored, Mic? Do pharmacies have to send data in to the DEA? Lists of names of who got opioid rx's, and what and how many or something?

hey there ... from what i

hey there ... from what i understand every script is done so in triplicate copy. not sure where all the copies go but i do know one copy is sent to "The State" and i believe it is the state that keeps record of who gets what and when. even if the person pays cash.

i dunno about other states but you can find Maines Monitoring Program right online. it states that not only people who are on legally prescribed meds are on this list but anyone who has had a summons for pot or any other drug. every hospital from here to there and back has this list at their finger tips.

in fact until October ... the Prescription Monitoring Program is open to everyone and anyone to write or email their thoughts about this program. I am going to send my thoughts in soon.
it's a good idea but has some faults. for example: a friend i paint homes w/from time to time just broke his hand - wicked bad! so, he went to the ER and he said they acted as if he broke his hand on purpose because his name is on the list!! they refused to give him a shot and kept him there for about 8 hrs! and he said they wouldn't allow him to take one of his own pills while in their establishment!! ?? wow'za!!

this whole situation is waaaay out'a hand. lol out'a hand, get it? lol my poor friend is an icon for this situation. i'm horrible. any way, he had surgery today and even his surgeon wouldn't give him any "extra" meds. it's just aweful.

i cannot wait till i fell better ... Capitol Hill look out cuz here comes Kara!! & ya'll know how i can talk! lol try google, type in : Prescription Monitoring Program and see what comes up fer ya. be well

Hi everyone, I was

Hi everyone,
I was wondering if any of you with the disc injuries have tried spinal decompression treatments? I receive these treatments 2x per week and they have done wonders for my back. I don't actually have a disc herniation but this table can help those with disc problems!!! I do have nagging back pain and these treatments have done wonders. Walking for extended periods used to be so painful for me and this is the only thing that has helped!

Everyone I know that has had surgery for disc problems feel better for a bit but the pain ends up coming back and it usually seems to be worse than before! A couple friends have had to get this stimulator implanted in their back to control their pain because it was so bad after getting their surgeries.

Spinal decompression can help with disc herniation and other lumbar or cervical spine problems. My doctor has had a lot of success treating these types of patients. I would highly recommend trying this before any surgical option. You can always stop these treatments but you can't undo a surgery!!!

For those of you that don't know, I will describe what these treatments are like. First, you are strapped to a table by your lower and upper body. Then, the table is inverted at a angle of about 10 degrees, this allows gravity to help in the stretching process. The table that you are strapped to then is moved from a fixed point that you are also attached to. This creates a "pull or stretch" on your lumbar spine. When the vertebrae are pulled apart it takes the pressure off of the discs and also allows for nutrients and fluid to rush into the discs because the pull of the vertebrae creates a vacuum. The table I go on also has built in vibration which causes your postural muscles to fatigue and relax and prevent them from spasming. There are also peer-reviewed studies that show that disc space has been shown to increase as a result of these treatments.

The table that my doctor uses is called the Pettibon Spinal Rejuvenation Table, it has built in vibration which I'm not sure if all other decompression tables have, but it really helps to relax you! Another good thing about it is that after you have had a few treatments they let you control how much of a "pull" you get. This is really nice because you only have to do the stretch to your tolerance and once you relax into the stretch you can increase it to get the max. results.

I don't know where everyone with complaints is from but my doctor is in Grande Prairie, Alberta, Canada. His name is Dr. Rechlo his practice is the Chiropractic Wellness Centre. If you aren't near that area try to find a practitioner that uses the Pettibon Table (PSRT) and try these treatments before you go for surgery!!!

heartthrob

heartthrob wrote:
MicOnTheNorthShore wrote:
heartthrob wrote:

He moved away about 6 months ago. Maybe the system you speak of is monitored through the persons insurance co? Maybe then he paid cash? I don't know. I just know he did it.

I'm fairly certain he was 'into' other stuff as well.

The DEA certainly monitors prescriptions, particularly those for opioids. A patient can end up on an exception report when they simply exceed 90 pills per month.

How is that monitored, Mic? Do pharmacies have to send data in to the DEA? Lists of names of who got opioid rx's, and what and how many or something?

I don't know the technical details behind the monitoring. I'm guessing that with today's computerization of seemingly everything, that when a pharmacist uses a machine to enter the prescription data for a controlled substance, that a transmission is sent to a state drug monitoring program, to which the DEA has access.

The only information I could find regarding pharmacists' responsibilities with respect to records was under "Prescription Monitoring Programs" in the "Pharmacist's Manual", referenced at http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/pubs/manuals/pharm2/pharm_manual.htm and found at http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/pubs/manuals/pharm2/2pharm_manual.pdf. That refers to state monitoring programs (39 states at this point, and growing) which provide access to federal agencies charged with enforcing the Controlled Substances Act.

The DOJ appears to be working on a program to assist states in their monitoring programs, with a view to making prescribing information available to both federal agencies and other state agencies (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/BJA/grant/prescripdrugs.html).

WOW!! this is too odd. my

WOW!! this is too odd. my friend from Florida just a few moments ago sent me an email about this exact thing!! she said it changed her life! she said everything else had failed but that this treatment gave her life back. she found a place near me who does this and i am going to call them first thing tomarrow. i'll try to put a link up to their website.

thank you for share'n!! i had come back here to write about it but you beat me to it Smiling
be well.

Hi Kara, Didn't know if you

Hi Kara,
Didn't know if you had heard of spinal decompression before so I thought I would offer you some info on it in case you haven't. Pain meds can't help the cause of your problem and this is a great non-surgical option.
I was wondering if any of you with the disc injuries have tried spinal decompression treatments? I receive these treatments 2x per week and they have done wonders for my back. I don't actually have a disc herniation but this table can help those with disc problems!!! I do have nagging back pain and these treatments have done wonders. Walking for extended periods used to be so painful for me and this is the only thing that has helped!

Everyone I know that has had surgery for disc problems feel better for a bit but the pain ends up coming back and it usually seems to be worse than before! A couple friends have had to get this stimulator implanted in their back to control their pain because it was so bad after getting their surgeries.

Spinal decompression can help with disc herniation and other lumbar or cervical spine problems. My doctor has had a lot of success treating these types of patients. I would highly recommend trying this before any surgical option. You can always stop these treatments but you can't undo a surgery!!!

For those of you that don't know, I will describe what these treatments are like. First, you are strapped to a table by your lower and upper body. Then, the table is inverted at a angle of about 10 degrees, this allows gravity to help in the stretching process. The table that you are strapped to then is moved from a fixed point that you are also attached to. This creates a "pull or stretch" on your lumbar spine. When the vertebrae are pulled apart it takes the pressure off of the discs and also allows for nutrients and fluid to rush into the discs because the pull of the vertebrae creates a vacuum. The table I go on also has built in vibration which causes your postural muscles to fatigue and relax and prevent them from spasming. There are also peer-reviewed studies that show that disc space has been shown to increase as a result of these treatments.

The table that my doctor uses is called the Pettibon Spinal Rejuvenation Table, it has built in vibration which I'm not sure if all other decompression tables have, but it really helps to relax you! Another good thing about it is that after you have had a few treatments they let you control how much of a "pull" you get. This is really nice because you only have to do the stretch to your tolerance and once you relax into the stretch you can increase it to get the max. results.

I don't know where everyone with complaints is from but my doctor is in Grande Prairie, Alberta, Canada. His name is Dr. Rechlo his practice is the Chiropractic Wellness Centre. If you aren't near that area try to find a practitioner that uses the Pettibon Table (PSRT) and try these treatments before you go for surgery!!!

MicOnTheNorthShore

MicOnTheNorthShore wrote:
heartthrob wrote:
MicOnTheNorthShore wrote:
heartthrob wrote:

He moved away about 6 months ago. Maybe the system you speak of is monitored through the persons insurance co? Maybe then he paid cash? I don't know. I just know he did it.

I'm fairly certain he was 'into' other stuff as well.

The DEA certainly monitors prescriptions, particularly those for opioids. A patient can end up on an exception report when they simply exceed 90 pills per month.

How is that monitored, Mic? Do pharmacies have to send data in to the DEA? Lists of names of who got opioid rx's, and what and how many or something?

I don't know the technical details behind the monitoring. I'm guessing that with today's computerization of seemingly everything, that when a pharmacist uses a machine to enter the prescription data for a controlled substance, that a transmission is sent to a state drug monitoring program, to which the DEA has access.

The only information I could find regarding pharmacists' responsibilities with respect to records was under "Prescription Monitoring Programs" in the "Pharmacist's Manual", referenced at http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/pubs/manuals/pharm2/pharm_manual.htm and found at http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/pubs/manuals/pharm2/2pharm_manual.pdf. That refers to state monitoring programs (39 states at this point, and growing) which provide access to federal agencies charged with enforcing the Controlled Substances Act.

The DOJ appears to be working on a program to assist states in their monitoring programs, with a view to making prescribing information available to both federal agencies and other state agencies (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/BJA/grant/prescripdrugs.html).

Well that's good. Then maybe PCP's or pain docs will be able to comfortably prescribe meds, knowing that 2 other docs aren't Rx'ing the same stuff.

Don't know how my neighbor was getting away with it, but I know that he was.

heartthrob wrote: Well

heartthrob wrote:

Well that's good. Then maybe PCP's or pain docs will be able to comfortably prescribe meds, knowing that 2 other docs aren't Rx'ing the same stuff.

Don't know how my neighbor was getting away with it, but I know that he was.

When I was reading through the state monitoring programs, the most current website stated that 39 states had programs to which the DEA had access. However, some websites with information only a few years old gave numbers like 27, 23, and 20 states. When I was in Maryland during the mid 90s, narcotic prescriptions did not require triplicate scripts, leaving me to wonder whether there was any monitoring program in the state during that period.

Monitoring involves all sorts of filter conditions, such as consistent patient identification, form of payment, number of pills, etc. If your neighbour was paying cash, using slightly different names (first/last, middle/last), different providers, and with each script being for less than 90 pills, he may well have been keeping just under the radar.

i know something is wrong

i know something is wrong with my back - something other than the herniated disc. i have always known when something was wrong w/my body.

i am supposed to go in for an x-ray of my tailbone. but i am afraid they won't find anything. isn't that aweful? i gotta hope something is wrong? it's just that if they do find something than that will explain why i have such severe pain in my tailbone area. the area is very swollen but maybe that's just muscle and won't be seen on an xray. ?? it feels like something is trying to push it's way out of my tailbone area.

i am debate'n rather i should just go to the ER. either i will be treated aweful or i will be helped. 50/50. but the bad 50 can be so emotionally painful that i dunno if i have it in me to be degraged.

a friend recently fell and broke his hand severely. he had to have surgery. and because he's a pain patient the ER wouldn't help him w/his acute pain. and then his surgeon wouldn't help him after the operation. ??

i just need help till i can be fixed. at least i hope n pray i can be fixed.

ok, well just venting my angst. it does help to get my mind off things.

Maybe your tailbone is

Maybe your tailbone is turned sideways or tipped in the wrong way. That can cause that achiness in the very lowest region of your body and into your thighs that you mention. I keep thinking about you and hoping you will find relief soon. Take care ~ Willow W.

hi ww thank you : ) i

hi ww thank you : ) i appreciate your thoughts. i think about you too and hope you find peace!

today is really bad. i'm scared. i don't know what to do. each moment is unbareable. i try to sleep through it but i can't even manage that. i just want to be safe again, to get better, to have a doc who actually cares bout not only manage'n my pain but a doc who will do everything to help me. my life feels surreal... the anxiety is just aweful. i never want to be this afraid ever again.

it's saturday. i am pray'n my old gp sent the right records this time to a doc i'm pretty sure will help me. and i am pray'n i'll be able to get an appointment by the 1st. but that's gonna take a miracle - i'm almost certain.

be well. hugs of hope, k

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