Chronic Pain, Depression , Suicide

Chicken or egg time...

Pain hurts, it depresses you, death cures both

Punching out, passes through my mind several times a week. A good thing ... no
Reasonable? A lousy cure, but a cure.

Depression would seem to me, to be a normal reaction to constant pain, euphoria would not be.

Dan, had listed Hamlet's second soliloquy. "When he himself might his quietus make"

Twain cited, a woman in poorly treated intractable pain, who took her life to escape it.

Both of which have been rattling around in the gourd, this evening.

I have read a ridiculous amount of info on this topic, that pain is caused by depression, pain causes depression, belly button lint causes pain, depression and suicide....etc.

Did your pain begin before or after you have become depressed, does not seem to be addressed in my reading.

It would seem that the medical community is working on the chicken and egg dealie.

Well I'm beat, more later me boardies.

Your Thinkings?

CHRONIC PAIN AND SUICIDALITY

Pain. 2001 Jan;89(2-3):199-206.

Suicidal intent in patients with chronic pain.

Fisher BJ, Haythornthwaite JA, Heinberg LJ, Clark M, Reed J.

Department of Psychiatry, Cook County Hospital, Chicago, IL, USA.

Suicidal ideation among individuals suffering from chronically painful conditions has not been widely studied, although rates of completed suicide are believed to be elevated in this population relative to the general population. The psychiatric literature on suicide documents the importance of controlling for the severity of depression when studying factors associated with suicidal ideation, attempts, or completion. The present study examined the relationships between suicidal ideation and the experience of pain, pain-related disability, and pain coping efforts among a sample of individuals experiencing chronically painful conditions. Of 200 patients evaluated on an inpatient rehabilitation unit in a psychiatric service, 13 individuals (6.5%) reported suicidal intent on a commonly used self-report measure of symptoms of depression, the Beck Depression Inventory. This group was compared to a matched (age, sex, pain duration) group of similarly depressed individuals (N=13) and a matched group of non-depressed individuals (N=13) on measures of pain, disability, pain beliefs, and pain coping strategies. A history of a suicide attempt was associated with suicidal intent. Family history of substance abuse was significantly more prevalent among the depressed groups, regardless of suicidal thinking. The depressed/suicidal group and depressed/non-suicidal groups reported higher levels of pain, higher levels of pain-related disability, lower use of active coping, and higher use of passive coping compared to the non-depressed group. The depressed groups did not differ from one another on any of the measures of pain experience. Depression, not suicidal status, consistently predicted level of functioning. The prevalence of suicidal intent was comparable to rates observed in other studies and relatively low. When individuals with chronic pain report suicidal intent, it is imperative that measures preventing self-harm be implemented immediately and the patient's depression be treated aggressively.

Semin Clin Neuropsychiatry. 1999 Jul;4(3):221-7.

The association of chronic pain and suicide.

Fishbain DA.

University of Miami School of Medicine, South Shore Hospital, Miami Beach, FL 33139, USA.

Chronic pain patients (CPPs) are at greater risk for depression than the general population. As such, one would expect suicidal ideation, suicide attempts, and suicide completions to be commonly found within chronic pain (CP) populations. To explore these issues, 18 studies relating to the association of CP and suicide were subjected to a structured review. These studies indicated that suicide ideation, suicide attempts, and suicide completions are commonly found in CPP populations. In addition, a number of controlled studies and suicide completion rate studies indicated that CP may be a suicide risk factor. Finally, a review of known suicide risk factors from other populations indicated that CP populations commonly exhibit other suicide risk factors. Psychiatric examiners should consider CP to be a potential suicide risk factor. In addition, in all CPPs exhibiting suicidal behavior, a careful search for associated comorbid suicide risk factors should be initiated.

Clin J Pain. 1992 Jun;8(2):164-9.

Early detection measures and triage procedures for suicide ideation in chronic pain patients.

Livengood JM, Parris WC.

Department of Anesthesiology, Vanderbilt University Medical Center, Nashville, Tennessee 37232.

There is a dearth of writings about early detection of potential suicide patients in chronic pain centers. Early detection measures used at the Vanderbilt Pain Control Center include a Symptom Checklist-90, with questions about depressive symptomatology and "Thoughts of Ending Your Life"; medical and psychological interviews; monitoring of changes in emotional disturbance; and, if warranted, administration of the Scale of Suicidal Ideation. Three case studies are presented that indicate that the results of an assessment measure should be tempered with clinical judgment. Suicidal behavior, including suicidal ideation, is a medical emergency; therefore, there is great need for early detection and triage measures.

Neurology. 1995 Dec;45(12 Suppl 9):S11-6; discussion S35-6.

Central pain: diagnosis and treatment strategies.

Gonzales GR.

Department of Neurology, Mayo Clinic Scottsdale, AZ 85259, USA.

The pathophysiology of central pain (CP) remains poorly understood. The paucity of objective findings on clinical examination of some of these patients can add to the difficulty in establishing a concrete diagnosis of CP. A pathophysiologic conceptual framework has been established to provide guidance. The goal of treatment should be pain reduction rather than complete pain relief. Surgical procedures have been used for specific causes of CP, but no one surgical technique helps relieve pain over the long term in all CP patients. Likewise, no one pharmacologic agent is successful in all CP patients, and pain relief is often incomplete. Pharmacologic treatment may take the form of stepwise addition of various agents, the cornerstone of which are antidepressants, followed by anticonvulsants, opioids, and other drugs. If all standard pharmacologic treatments fail, treatment of psychological problems induced by chronic pain is necessary since depression and the risk of suicide are significant in patients with poorly controlled CP.

J Psychosoc Nurs Ment Health Serv. 1992 Feb;30(2):29-34. Related Articles, Links

Suicide among elderly white men: development of a profile.

Mellick E, Buckwalter KC, Stolley JM.

Viterbo College, LaCrosse, Wisconsin.

1. Older white men have the highest suicide rate in the nation; a linear increase of suicide occurs with each passing year of chronological age. 2. Elderly who attempt suicide are more likely to communicate their intentions less frequently and to use violent and lethal means. 3. Chronic sleep problems, pain, degenerative illness, or clinical depression may be experienced by older white men at suicidal risk; somatic complaints including imaginary symptoms can mask depression. 4. Educational programs, outreach mental health programs, and enhanced consultation/coordination improve case findings and early intervention. Holistic nursing care, including pain alleviation, depression assessment, and simple comfort measures, are imperative in suicide prevention in the elderly.

Clin J Pain. 1991 Mar;7(1):29-36.

Completed suicide in chronic pain.

Fishbain DA, Goldberg M, Rosomoff RS, Rosomoff H.

Department of Psychiatry, University of Miami School of Medicine, Florida.

Although convergent lines of evidence indicate that one can expect a high rate of suicide completion for chronic pain patients, this problem has not previously been investigated. Follow-up data from our pain center revealed three chronic pain patients (two men and one woman) who completed suicide. These three cases are presented. The sequential nature of the data enabled us to calculate suicide rates for our chronic pain population and subsamples of this population: 16.5 women per year; 29.3 men per year; 57.1 white men and 34.9 white women in the age range of 35-64 years per year; and 78.6 white worker compensation men in the age range of 35-64 years per year. Calculation of the 95% confidence interval and comparison of these suicide rates to the general population of the United States using the Z statistic indicated that all chronic pain patient suicide rates were significantly greater than that of the general population. White men, white women, and white worker compensation men with chronic pain in the age range of 35-64 years are twice, three, and three times as likely, respectively, as their counterparts in the general population to die by suicide. Although no firm conclusions can be drawn because of the small suicide sample, these case reports indicate a need for further studies of chronic pain patient suicide rates at other pain centers.

Comment on:
Psychother Psychosom. 1994;61(1-2):65-73.

Chronic pain and suicide.

Fishbain DA.

Clin J Pain. 2004 Mar-Apr;20(2):111-8. Related Articles, Links

Suicidal ideation in outpatients with chronic musculoskeletal pain: an exploratory study of the role of sleep onset insomnia and pain intensity.

Smith MT, Perlis ML, Haythornthwaite JA.

Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Baltimore, Maryland 21287, USA.

OBJECTIVES: Sleep disturbance, depression, and heightened risk of suicide are among the most clinically significant sequelae of chronic pain. While sleep disturbance is associated with suicidality in patients with major depression and is a significant independent predictor of completed suicide in psychiatric patients, it is not known whether sleep disturbance is associated with suicidal behavior in chronic pain. This exploratory study evaluates the importance of insomnia in discriminating suicidal ideation in chronic pain relative to depression severity and other pain-related factors. METHODS: Fifty-one outpatients with non-cancer chronic pain were recruited. Subjects completed a pain and sleep survey, the Pittsburgh Sleep Quality Index, the Beck Depression Inventory, and the Multidimensional Pain Inventory. Subjects were classified as "suicidal ideators" or "non-ideators" based on their responses to BDI-Item 9 (Suicide). Bivariate analyses and multivariate discriminant function analyses were conducted. RESULTS: Twenty-four percent reported suicidal ideation (without intent). Suicidal ideators endorsed higher levels of: sleep onset insomnia, pain intensity, medication usage, pain-related interference, affective distress, and depressive symptoms (P < 0.03). These 6 variables were entered into stepwise discriminant function analyses. Two variables predicted group membership: Sleep Onset Insomnia Severity and Pain Intensity, respectively. The discriminant function correctly classified 84.3% of the cases (P < 0.0001). DISCUSSION: Chronic pain patients who self-reported severe and frequent initial insomnia with concomitant daytime dysfunction and high pain intensity were more likely to report passive suicidal ideation, independent from the effects of depression severity. Future research aimed at determining whether sleep disturbance is a modifiable risk factor for suicidal ideation in chronic pain is warranted.

Aging Clin Exp Res. 2003 Apr;15(2):99-110. Related Articles, Links

Suicide and euthanasia in late life.

De Leo D, Spathonis K.

Australian Institute for Suicide Research and Prevention, Griffith University, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia.

Epidemiological studies of suicide in the elderly indicate that, in the last few decades, there has been a relevant increase in suicide rates in old age in a number of Asian and Latin nations, with an almost parallel decrease in Anglo-Saxon counties. Mental disorders, particularly depression, physical illness, personality traits such as hostility, hopelessness, the inability to verbally express psychological pain and dependency on others, recent life events and losses are all factors that may contribute to suicide in later life. Compared with suicide in other age groups, mors voluntaris in late life is associated with the use of highly lethal methods, less ambivalence and impulsivity, and more determination and intent to die. Accordingly, elderly suicidal individuals are more likely than younger subjects to complete rather than attempt suicide. Some evidence suggests also that the characteristics of elderly individuals who attempt suicide may not overlap with those who complete suicide. Death thoughts and suicidal ideations are relatively rare among mentally healthy elderly adults, and are less predominant in this age bracket. However, whether elderly suicidal behaviour exists along a continuum, progressing in severity from death thoughts and suicidal ideation to suicide attempts and completed suicide, remains unclear. Assisted suicide and euthanasia in the elderly have been associated with the desire to escape chronic physical pain and suffering caused by terminal illness, and to relieve mental anguish and feelings of hopelessness, depression and extreme "tiredness of life." The role of the family and those treating chronically ill members is crucial in the final stages of life, particularly when autonomy and the ability of the elderly individual to make end-of-life decisions are compromised. The main aspects associated with these controversial phenomena, particularly from a transcultural perspective, are reviewed in this article.

J Am Med Womens Assoc. 2003 Winter;58(1):44-8. Related Articles, Links

Antecedents of euthanasia and suicide among older women.

Roscoe LA, Malphurs JE, Dragovic LJ, Cohen D.

Department of Internal Medicine, College of Medicine, University of South Florida, MDC 19, 12901 Bruce B Downs Blvd, Tampa, FL 33612-4799, USA.

OBJECTIVES: To identify the characteristics of older women who sought Jack Kevorkian's assistance in dying and to compare them with those of an age-matched sample who committed suicide. METHOD: This retrospective case-control study compared all 18 women age 55 and older who died with the assistance of Jack Kevorkian and whose deaths were investigated in Oakland County, Michigan from 1995 to 1997 with all 15 women age 55 and older who committed suicide in the same county during the same time period. We coded 203 variables in 7 domains from medical examiner files, including autopsy findings. RESULTS: Significantly more of Kevorkian's cases had amyotrophic lateral sclerosis or multiple sclerosis (p = .018), a recent decline in health (p = .031), or inadequately controlled pain (p = .041). Women who committed suicide had more prevalent chronic illnesses and were more likely to have been diagnosed with clinically significant depression or other psychiatric disorders (p = .023). Both groups were significantly less likely to be married (p < .001) and more likely to be divorced (p < .001) than US Census data would predict. CONCLUSIONS: The different vulnerabilities of older women who want to die and either commit suicide or seek assistance deserve continued careful research. Poorly controlled pain was a factor in seeking assistance in dying, and depression and psychiatric disorders characterized older women who committed suicide in our study. Not having a spouse may increase isolation and reinforce the hopelessness of women who are living with catastrophic illness.

BMJ. 2001 Sep 22;323(7314):662-5. Related Articles, Links

Comment in:
BMJ. 2002 Feb 2;324(7332):300.
BMJ. 2002 Feb 2;324(7332):300.

Widespread body pain and mortality: prospective population based study.

Macfarlane GJ, McBeth J, Silman AJ.

Unit of Chronic Disease Epidemiology, Medical School, University of Manchester, Manchester M13 9PT.

OBJECTIVE: To determine whether there is excess mortality in groups of people who report widespread body pain, and if so to establish the nature and extent of any excess. DESIGN: Prospective follow up study over eight years. Mortality rate ratios were adjusted for age group, sex, and study location. SETTING: North west England. PARTICIPANTS: 6569 people who took part in two pain surveys during 1991-2. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Pain status at baseline and subsequent mortality. RESULTS: 1005 (15%) participants had widespread pain, 3176 (48%) had regional pain, and 2388 (36%) had no pain. During follow up mortality was higher in people with regional pain (mortality rate ratio 1.21, 95% confidence interval 1.01 to 1.44) and widespread pain (1.31, 1.05 to 1.65) than in those who reported no pain. The excess mortality among people with regional and widespread pain was almost entirely related to deaths from cancer (1.55 (1.09 to 2.19) for regional pain and 2.07 (1.37 to 3.13) for widespread pain). The excess cancer mortality remained after exclusion of people in whom cancer had been diagnosed before the original survey and after adjustment for potential confounding factors. There were also more deaths from causes other than disease (for example, accidents, suicide, violence) among people with widespread pain (5.21, 0.94 to 28.78). CONCLUSION: There is an intriguing association between the report of widespread pain and subsequent death from cancer in the medium and long term. This may have implications for the long term follow up of patients with "unexplained" widespread pain symptoms, such as those with fibromyalgia.

Pain. 1998 May;76(1-2):137-44.

Suicidality in chronic abdominal pain: an analysis of the Hispanic Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (HHANES).

Magni G, Rigatti-Luchini S, Fracca F, Merskey H.

F. Hoffmann-La Roche, Ltd., Basel, Switzerland.

The objective of this study was to explore the relationship between suicidal ideation, suicidal attempts, depression and chronic abdominal pain in data gathered during a systematic epidemiologic survey, the Hispanic Health and Nutrition Examination Survey of the United States National Centre for Health Statistics. The material comprises data collected between 1982 and 1984 in samples of Hispanic groups in the United States. A sub-sample which initially comprised 5498 subjects had provided answers to questions concerning the thoughts about death, wishes to die, thoughts of committing suicide and suicide attempts, as well as information about complaints of chronic abdominal pain and responses to the Centre for Epidemiologic Studies Depression Scale (CES-D). Complete answers were available from 4964 subjects. The data were analyzed by tabulation, and logistic regression analyses. The lifetime prevalence of suicidality was much increased in subjects with pain compared with those without chronic abdominal pain. Rates for thoughts about death, wishing to die, suicidal ideation and suicide attempts were 2- to 3-times more frequent in those with chronic abdominal pain compared with those without. Logistic regression analyses and the calculation of odds ratios confirmed that the most powerful predictive factors for suicidality were first, the presence of significant depressive ideation, and second, the presence of chronic abdominal pain. There is a strong relationship between chronic abdominal pain and suicidality in the Hispanic population in the United States. This was particularly evident in the Puerto Rican population of the United States where both rates were much increased compared with other Hispanic citizens. The present data are new, but no conclusion can be drawn concerning causality because they are cross-sectional. They indicate the importance of the link between chronic abdominal pain and depression in this population.

Blake, I read your comments,

Blake, I read your comments, but none of the studies. I just don't have the time.

I'm very sorry that you're feeling down. And I bet the weather doesn't help.

I know that my depression came AFTER the pain. It only stands to reason that pain would cause one to become depressed. It's hard to live with it day in, and day out. It seems that you have been battling this for a long time. I hope you find help.

Never surrender to the pain

Never surrender to the pain or the ones who don't listen to the fact pain exists.

Yes, when in massive pain and unable to even function, ending it all does seem the solution.

Yet, there is no "take it back", "do it over", "try again", "made a mistake".....

Whenever my pain becomes too great and I consider just giving up, I realize I would probably just **** it up and do myself a greater harm while still remaining alive.

I can't take that risk. I would rather continue on as I am in the hopes that someday something good will happen and I may have a life again.

Sorry you are facing such a daunting part of your life, blake2go. The spirit and character you exhibit here just does not show you are the type of person who would ever give up....no matter what.

Depression...never had it before the pain, don't want it now, face it every day, beat the stuffing out of it all the time.

Dear Blake, My heart

Dear Blake,
My heart goes out to you. Pain drains the life out of you. Pain comes first, then depression, in my opinion. This is only my second post, but I think I read somewhere that you have not shared whatever your problem is. If I were you( and of course I am not) I would use whatever small possibilities exist to help in pain management. I believe Dr. Harley and others would indeed help you if they can, or offer some suggestions, to try to help. What can you lose? Maybe nothing would come of it, but maybe something could.

Eastern cultures do mediations(like the monks) to control aspects of their bodies. In our culture i read a book by some Doctor named Bensen that put the technique in Western terms, called the "relaxation response". The book is called "The Relaxation Response" Meditation, as in the above isn't easy, in fact I found it to be hard, but I learned it. I learned everything I could when I was sick and in pain. I admit I don't do it now, but i know it helped. I even went to an Oshram when i was in England. The Dr.s there were not sympathetic to pain. I had to come home to the US.

Its easy for me to say don't give up, but, there really are new treatments developed every day. I don't know you but I wish you to be free of pain as quickly as possible, through earthly means.

My love to you
Tomato

Blake,I hear it

Blake,I hear it EVERYDAY,from my oldest sis. I would like to think that you wouldn't do such a foolish thing. I can't say I don't believe you would,because I don't know you as well as I do her. It's such a sad thought to think that you would even consider it. It is also a sad thought,that you wouldn't have the resources to help you there somehow. When I say I care,I feel like you don't believe me,when I say I will pray for you,I feel like you don't want prayers. Well,that's all I can do for you,is PRAY.Is there not a way for you Blake to find a place to live in exchange for your help to someone else? She said she would let a homeless person move in with her to help her in exchange for them to help her,I would hope that there are places there where you could do the same. I do wish ONLY the best for you,and I WILL continue to pray for you. Many, many blessings to you Blake. P.S. Even if it is not wanted or accepted.

I don't think it's the right

I don't think it's the right thing to do, and if you do it wrong, then you'll really wish that you were dead. However, if I were in severe chronic pain, I would be completely overwhelmed; I'm sure that the thought would cross my mind, and I undertand how it crosses your mind.

It's a sin, so I'm not sure that I could do it, but I can understand how people would, especially if they think that nobody cares, and there will be no end to the suffering.

Welcome Tomato, and a

Welcome Tomato, and a confused thanks to the rest of you...

You may have taken my words and the title of this thread, to much to heart, was not planning to punch out tonight, but it is a comfort to know that anytime I really have had enough, there is an off switch.

Most of the folks I know in CP, think about ending their suffering, some once a month, some several times a day. Much like having a hateful job, a terrible movie, you can walk out, but you know you'll still need money, and you paid to see the movie, but at some point, you don't care.

The word "quietus" has several meanings, I think in the sense that the Hamlet is using it, is not the murder of self, but the release from life. In that soliloquy, he asks is life worth living? He struggles with the what and what if, and in the ends gets bogged down into indecision.

As I have said in the quote thread, I know this one by heart, and I too ask, struggle and end in indecision, which like him, leaves me here.

But back to chicken and egg, I'm in pain, and am depressed about it, do I have a mental condition requiring an antidepressant to change my brain chemistry, or am I normal and should damn well be depressed? I have my thoughts, may I have yours.

I'll be back the bod needs food, that's the prob with bods, they need and need and need, my kingdom to be a disembodied mind...

IMHO, it sounds to me like

IMHO, it sounds to me like your depression is a "situational" depression opposed to a "chemical" one. Not that long ago, I found myself consumed in a dark depression because of a "need" to understand and work through sexual abuse issues that could NOT be changed by medication. Only by dealing with the issues was the depression finally lifted. It seemed to have gotten worse when I tried to tell Dr. Keriem, ex-pychiatrist, what MY needs were and he wouldn't listen. What I am hearing from you, Blake, sounds like the same thing. You know what your needs are, but no one in the medical field wants to pay attention. Sad

blake2go wrote: But back to

blake2go wrote:

But back to chicken and egg, I'm in pain, and am depressed about it, do I have a mental condition requiring an antidepressant to change my brain chemistry, or am I normal and should damn well be depressed? I have my thoughts, may I have yours.

Fibromyalgia, Blake. As an example encompasses Chronic pain and Depression...

Situational depression is a realistic thought, unless you've been uncomfortable for so long, that your mind is reaching it's limits....

Blake, it doesn't matter

Blake, it doesn't matter WHICH came first, the pain or the depression. They feed on each other - it's a vicious circle.

CBT (cognitive behaviour therapy)is based on the theory that if you think positively long enough, then you start to feel better. At the other end, anti-depressants can change your brain chemistry, and once you feel better, the pain is diminished to some extent.

That's why multimodal therapy usually works the best.

Can hardly see through the

Can hardly see through the mist of my tears Blake

Oh to wave a magic wand and eliminate the pain of life and limb.
I have pain but it is manageable thank God. I can't even imagine the bravery required for the pain you and some others here describe.

Depression was once explained to me as "unexpressed anger" Could it be that raging in private over the pain would help?? I don't know.

Just my meandering thoughts you have made surface with your thread...

If I was young and facing a life of pain - who knows would I wish to exit quietly? I might...but having children I couldn't have abandoned them so I would stay.

Being older - if I was in great pain where it became a burden for my loved ones - I might think it kinder to spare them and leave quietly.

But I believe there is a place to go after life
- a "soft place to fall" in the beyond - where I will be forgiven for not being able to suffer endless physical pain here. I would like to think I may be more useful "there" with no pain than "here" and be useless.

blake2go wrote: Welcome

blake2go wrote:

Welcome Tomato, and a confused thanks to the rest of you...

You may have taken my words and the title of this thread, to much to heart, was not planning to punch out tonight, but it is a comfort to know that anytime I really have had enough, there is an off switch.

Most of the folks I know in CP, think about ending their suffering, some once a month, some several times a day. Much like having a hateful job, a terrible movie, you can walk out, but you know you'll still need money, and you paid to see the movie, but at some point, you don't care.

The word "quietus" has several meanings, I think in the sense that the Hamlet is using it, is not the murder of self, but the release from life. In that soliloquy, he asks is life worth living? He struggles with the what and what if, and in the ends gets bogged down into indecision.

As I have said in the quote thread, I know this one by heart, and I too ask, struggle and end in indecision, which like him, leaves me here.

But back to chicken and egg, I'm in pain, and am depressed about it, do I have a mental condition requiring an antidepressant to change my brain chemistry, or am I normal and should damn well be depressed? I have my thoughts, may I have yours.

I'll be back the bod needs food, that's the prob with bods, they need and need and need, my kingdom to be a disembodied mind...

Said so well, it had to be repeated!

I believe the same questions can be asked for any chronic illness. This thread hit me so hard I started crying; something I've been doing much more regularly as of late.

Am I depressed?

A question I've been asking myself quite frequently.

My GP is amazing! She gives me copies of all correspondance between herself and the specialists. I know what's in my file. The latest peice of paperwork added to my file was from an appointment with a physiatrist at an MS Clinic. In it, she told my GP she noticed my flat demeaner and recommended I be monitored closely and put on an antidepressant (recommended Celexa) sooner rather than later.

I have suffered from depression before. In highschool, I was suicidal. I was bullied. It took several years and several personality changes to overcome. I overcame it and I was content. I have suffered several hardships since, but I have only been depressed on a couple of occasions, which were short lived and easily overcome; but they always coincided with what I now know were MS flare ups. I know depression and I am very self aware.

I am flat. I have been for years. Looking into myself, and liking what I see, is how I've learned to evercome depression. Sometimes, for some people, it takes a long time to like what we see. I know I am currently depressed. I know what I don't like about my current self. What I don't know, because of this stupid f'n disease, is what's causing what, and I really don't know if anyone can really tell me. I don't know what I can fix and how to do it. I have lost faith in many of the people I have turned towards to tell me.

Is it a symptom of MS? Does it require medication? Does MS affect me more because I am depressed? If I wasn't depressed would I feel better physically? What affect are antidepressants going to have on me? Is fatigue a symptom of my MS or a symptom of depression?

Lately, I find myself disassociating myself from my wife. I am avoiding stressful situations. MS IS a stressful situation. I am tired of researching MS. I don't have the energy to research depression. Is fatigue caused by MS or by depression? Or is it caused by ehausting my mental capacity? Is my mental capacity diminished? Is it all in my perception? Can I change my perception without the use of drugs? I have done it before, should I be doing it now? Should I see a psychiatrist and let him decide? I have been let down by doctors so much lately, I don't know if I can trust a psychiatrist playing with my mind.

I trust many drugs for physical symptoms, but I have a fear of mind altering drugs. Ironic coming from a pothead. I know. Is pot making me apathetic? Is apathy making me depressed?

Too many questions!

I am tired of research!

I am tired of MS!

I am sorry I have no answers........only questions..........and that I went on so long, although I could go on much longer.

I am sorry to my wife.

I am sorry for having this f'n disease.

I am sorry that too many doctors have not enough answers; or the time to answer; or all they have is theories and none of them agree.

I am sorry sometimes I question my strength.

If anyone has any answers to any of these questions, not where to look or what to read, but actual answers. I would love to know.

Big D, yep the same for me,

Big D, yep the same for me, been the happy go lucky type me whole life, now
"once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered weak and weary"

Dan, I am sorry, I had not known that we shared this,"fun".

Tomato, I do use a meditation technique it is of some help when, the anger and frustration threats to roll me up.

Msdoodle, You are sweet, and I do thank you for your prayers, and good thoughts.

Wisher, I hope you will never know this kind of pain, as I hope to never, have to carry the cross you bear.

Abby, My thoughts exactly.

Harley, I thank you for your input, sadly the mind has been gone for some time, I miss it.

Twain, also thank you for your input, I did the anti d's, when I had a doc who did not like alprazolam for panic disorder, much to my gullibility, I went with it, it did not stop the attacks, it did not lessen the pain, it cost me an arm and a leg, I had dreams that I'd have thought I'd lost it, if had not known it as an adverse side effect. I gained a lot of weight, and never felt "right". So in the pain game, offering me Anti D's is the fastest way to insult me. The "it's all in your head" "drug seeker", mindset that so many of us see, is also an insult.

"You are not really in pain, you are depressed, that is causing you to feel non existent pain" Another real biggie. If you are in fact a hypochondriac, I feel for you, but am not going to bear your burden as mine, nor am I going to let another treat me as one.

So we are back to the chicken or the egg, am I going to take a med for clinical depression, when I am not clinically depressed, that also did not work for all of the "new" things claimed for it.

Am I to be treated first, as a person in real pain, or as a depressed person?

Now my situation makes it very hard for me, and it will make it hard for the doctor, as the things they'd like to have, will not be forthcoming, tests, x-rays, MRI, $$$ for 10 different meds, physical therapy, hydro therapy etc.

As for CBT, "things are not as bad as they appear" well in my case, yes they are. They are not very likely to get any better. I would think this method, would work for people who were not in fact, buried. Who were highly suggestible, and they might benefit from hypnosis as well as CBT.

I have to say I hate the idea of waking up tomorrow, as much as I hate the idea of not waking up tomorrow.

The below is from a person on another board, but sums it up very well.

"It hurts too much to hold on, but it hurts even more not to let go. Holding on seems to only prolong the inevitable".

As I am sitting here, still feeling the effects of work Saturday, barely making headway. It was nice to be back in the mix, but it was also very depressing, because I really saw how much I've lost. I'll never be on that team again.

It was a blessing meeting Dr. Coleman, a very good man, and I believe a fine physician. With my warped sense of humor, I had to laugh, here I am trying not to fall out, in the presence of the one person I need, more than any other being on the planet. It was like dieing of thirst, 10 feet from an oasis, unable to move.

As for the woman, who only had one way to go, unconscionable that anyone should be forced into that position. But she was, she did, she went.

I'm beginning to fade here, but, from the above articles.

"Suicidal behavior, including suicidal ideation, is a medical emergency; therefore, there is great need for early detection and triage measures"

How odd, the fact that a person who is suicidal, is a medical emergency, demanding action, but the underlying cause of the wish to suicide is not.

If I where to wander into a police station, and state I am suicidal, I'd find myself on a locked psych ward, the cause left untreated, until I "wised up", and stated I am no longer suicidal, then I'd be free, to go seek my end.

Now me boardies don't you go getting your panties in a wad, over all of this, this is a topic, not a cry for help, or any other psycho babble.

The coffee is done! why am I sitting here?

Blake, I truly feel your

Blake, I truly feel your pain!!!! Four years ago I fell down a flight of stairs, landing on my head. Now I've been left with nerve damage to my spine, scoliosis with stenosis, and rib hump, degenerative disc disease in neck and back, dislocated jaw, arthritis in hand, hip, knees, etc.... As a result I have developed severe Fms which has left me not only in constant pain, but disabled. I now use a walker at home, and a wheelchair when I leave the house. Before my accident I was extremely active, an avid hiker and yoga lover. It has taken me a long time to get used to my limited abilities, I choose to say abilities not disabilities. Not only these but the disfigurement of my body, which at one time I was extremely proud of. Financially my hubby and I have been struggling to hang on, and the guilt that I carry as I no longer bring in a paycheck! Personally, and I'm only speaking for myself I feel that depression would follow chronic pain after all pain isn't pleasant:( But like msdoodle I have a strong faith, which has seen me thru many a dark day. I'm thankful everyday that I survived my accident and am alive to be with the love of my life and our children and grandchildren (we have five now). While I'm only 48 many days I feel 100, living with severe pain is a unbelievable challenge but I'm up for the challenge. I'm choosing to take my situation and try to help others who are going thru the same pain and at times helplessness. Lack of understanding and empathy for chronic pain sufferers leads many to the depression and hopelessness that may aid in suicidal thoughts and God forbid action. I feel it's imperative to know that you're not alone in this and there are many of us ready to lend an ear. What others think really in the grand scheme of things is their issue, when others can't feel the pain how can they possibly understand!! Luckily I have the most amazing doctor who is my partner in my challenges, and has been working with me every step of the way. I thank God everyday for him, and the support of my family. I hope that you have a support system, and that you're not going thru this alone. From what I have been reading you've truly been thru the wringer, and I feel for you. I wish you better days, you're not alone. Patty

I have pain tonight. Fell

I have pain tonight. Fell in the parking garage. Sad

blake2go wrote: "Suicidal

blake2go wrote:

"Suicidal behavior, including suicidal ideation, is a medical emergency; therefore, there is great need for early detection and triage measures"

How odd, the fact that a person who is suicidal, is a medical emergency, demanding action, but the underlying cause of the wish to suicide is not.

If I where to wander into a police station, and state I am suicidal, I'd find myself on a locked psych ward, the cause left untreated, until I "wised up", and stated I am no longer suicidal, then I'd be free, to go seek my end.

Now me boardies don't you go getting your panties in a wad, over all of this, this is a topic, not a cry for help, or any other psycho babble.

The coffee is done! why am I sitting here?

Hopefully health"care" systems will wake up and smell the coffee! Laughing out loud Eye-wink

wishandaprayer wrote: I have

wishandaprayer wrote:

I have pain tonight. Fell in the parking garage. Sad

Sorry to learn you fell. How badly are you hurt?

wishandaprayer wrote: I have

wishandaprayer wrote:

I have pain tonight. Fell in the parking garage. Sad

Oh NO! Sad

First of all, are you ok?

Where is the pain?

Hope you're o.k maybe a hot

Hope you're o.k maybe a hot bath will help??? Take care, Patty

blake2go wrote: Now me

blake2go wrote:

Now me boardies don't you go getting your panties in a wad, over all of this, this is a topic, not a cry for help, or any other psycho babble.

Well, I'm happy to read this because if you did yourself in, you would ruin Chris', Ringo's and Randall's life too. By gosh, if you're gone, they would be merely existing.

Strawberry Jam

Strawberry Jam wrote:
blake2go wrote:

Now me boardies don't you go getting your panties in a wad, over all of this, this is a topic, not a cry for help, or any other psycho babble.

Well, I'm happy to read this because if you did yourself in, you would ruin Chris', Ringo's and Randall's life too. By gosh, if you're gone, they would be merely existing.

Ah a reason to live!

Wisher are you suffering from blake2go syndrome? I hope you are feelin a lil better!
Gravity, is not my friend either.

Imalert, bless you, I did not mean to get your eyes damp, as for venting,and raging, I have it down to a science, the squirrels have been most understanding.

Some of the negative life

Some of the negative life experiences that may cause depression, and some other causes for depression, include.

* The death of a loved one.

* A divorce, separation, or breakup of a relationship.

* Losing custody of children, or feeling that a child custody decision is not fair.

* A serious loss, such as a loss of a job, house, or money.

* A serious illness.

* A terminal illness.

* A serious accident.

* Chronic physical pain.

* Intense emotional pain.

* Loss of hope.

* Being victimized (domestic violence, rape, assault, etc).

* A loved one being victimized (child murder, child molestation, kidnapping, murder, rape, assault, etc.).

* Physical abuse.

* Verbal abuse.

* Sexual abuse.

* Unresolved abuse (of any kind) from the past.

* Feeling "trapped" in a situation perceived as negative.

* Feeling that things will never "get better."

* Feeling helpless.

* Serious legal problems, such as criminal prosecution or incarceration.

* Feeling "taken advantage of."

* Inability to deal with a perceived "humiliating" situation.

* Inability to deal with a perceived "failure."

* Alcohol abuse.

* Drug abuse.

* A feeling of not being accepted by family, friends, or society.

* A horrible disappointment.

* Feeling like one has not lived up to his or her high expectations or those of another.

* Bullying. (Adults, as well as children, can be bullied.)

* Low self-esteem.

Again, the above causes may trigger depression, and untreated depression is the number one cause for suicide.

http://www.suicide.org/suicide-causes.html

What seems missed, once again is the "cause" of the depression. Treat the depression not the cause.

Your dog died, you are depressed about it, rather than telling you to get another dog.
They wish to treat your depression, here have a pill.

Chasing side effect?

FOREIGN LESION When I find

FOREIGN LESION

When I find an article I recently read
I will send it to you in a PM

I know 2 people with MS and sent it to
their spouses - now I can't findit
but it was about MS being a "physically
caused" disease
Something about a small surgery in the neck
area that allowed blood to nourish the brain
so it would send/receive appropriate signals

Thus - no more pain and immobility??
Sorry - I shoulda found it first but then
maybe you have already read it

Here's a [[[hug ]]]

blake2go wrote: What seems

blake2go wrote:

What seems missed, once again is the "cause" of the depression. Treat the depression not the cause.

I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, I recently told the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Alberta that for victims of abuse, a pill will NOT get rid of the effects of the abuse. The ONLY way to treat these effects is by proper therapy. When you have a psychiatrist who pushes pills at you and will NOT address these issues, this minimization only reinforces all the negatives that a person holds about themselves and lowers their self-esteem. Lower self-esteem = suicidal ideation (in some cases). I cited several reputable institutions, including the Canadian Psychiatric Association and the American Psychiatric Association who state the very same thing.

Unfortunately, the College doesn't see it this way at all. Like some doctors here, they put blinders/ear muffs on and are not willing to listen to a "mental health" patient. They seem to think that I don't know what was best for me and others that are in a similar situation and they weren't prepared to go ask the "experts" if I could be right. Instead, they listened to the doctor who I filed a complaint against, who used "smoke screens" to justify his actions. IMHO, the College has effectively lowered the standard of care, where a victim of abuse can be revictimized by the very doctors that they are depending on to help them.

blake2go wrote: ...So in

blake2go wrote:

...So in the pain game, offering me Anti D's is the fastest way to insult me. The "it's all in your head"...

"You are not really in pain, you are depressed, that is causing you to feel non existent pain"

....am I going to take a med for clinical depression, when I am not clinically depressed...

Am I to be treated first, as a person in real pain, or as a depressed person?

By definition there is no such thing as "non existent pain". If someone feels pain, then it is real. Noone else can feel another person's pain.

"Anti-depressants" are used even when there is NO depression. They works synergistically with pain medications in modulating pain sensation. They are used for the pain of shingles, the burning pain of diabetic neuropathy, and the pain of cancer - even when the person is NOT depressed.

When chronic pain does lead to depression, anti-depressants can help "get you out of the gutter" so things don't seem so hopeless. They are always used as part of a multi-modal program.

Twain wrote: By definition

Twain wrote:

By definition there is no such thing as "non existent pain". If someone feels pain, then it is real. Noone else can feel another person's pain.

"Anti-depressants" are used even when there is NO depression. They works synergistically with pain medications in modulating pain sensation. They are used for the pain of shingles, the burning pain of diabetic neuropathy, and the pain of cancer - even when the person is NOT depressed.

When chronic pain does lead to depression, anti-depressants can help "get you out of the gutter" so things don't seem so hopeless. They are always used as part of a multi-modal program.

Very well put. AE and Blake; this is what many doctors know, and may not be adequately explaining to you. Conversely Many it can be stated with patients unwilling to accept the definitions or explanatations...

Declining treatment modalities ultimately only hurt the patient. You're going to have to stick your foot in the water. If it's too cold you can get out.

harleyman-6 wrote: Twain

harleyman-6 wrote:
Twain wrote:

By definition there is no such thing as "non existent pain". If someone feels pain, then it is real. Noone else can feel another person's pain.

"Anti-depressants" are used even when there is NO depression. They works synergistically with pain medications in modulating pain sensation. They are used for the pain of shingles, the burning pain of diabetic neuropathy, and the pain of cancer - even when the person is NOT depressed.

When chronic pain does lead to depression, anti-depressants can help "get you out of the gutter" so things don't seem so hopeless. They are always used as part of a multi-modal program.

Very well put. AE and Blake; this is what many doctors know, and may not be adequately explaining to you. Conversely Many it can be stated with patients unwilling to accept the definitions or explanatations...

Declining treatment modalities ultimately only hurt the patient. You're going to have to stick your foot in the water. If it's too cold you can get out.

Harley, I did not decline this treatment modality. I was on anti-depressants for 3 1/2 years and they never worked. During that time period I had tried 4 different brands of anti-depressants. I kept telling Dr. Keriem that my depression was a "situational" depression as opposed to a "chemical" one. But whenever I tried to talk about the abuse and the effects it had on my life, he shut me down. He told me he worked only on the "here and now."

From anything that I have read and researched since leaving Dr. Keriem, it IS important to address the abuse. This doesn't mean dwelling on the actual event, but more on how this life changing crime against another, keeps one chained to false perceptions about themselves and how it interferes with relationships. There is SO much damage that can be done and just "recognizing" that one has been abused is not enough. It takes a lot of work to "change" one's way of thinking. On top of that, because of the abuse, so many mistakes were made, adding to the guilt and shame of the abuse and these need to be examined and "put right" so that they can finally be laid to rest.

But rather than treat me with proper therapy, Dr. Keriem depended on the anti-depressants. When I finally refused to take them during the last year of our relationship, I was the one seen to be non-compliant. I have never been on anti-depressants since I went off them that last year with Dr. Keriem. I continued therapy with another psychiatrist who allowed me to work through these issues. I will never be "cured" from the effects of the abuse, but I have learned a lot about abuse, it's effects, how it affected me and have worked hard at challenging myself to change a lifetime of skewed thinking. I can live with the effects of the abuse. I don't feel "guilty" or "shame" about being abused or talking about my actions precipitated because of the abuse.

What bothers me is that the College will not listen to what damage was done by Dr. Keriem's refusal to allow me to talk about these abuse issues, as well as his offering to give me a referral and then leaves me "hanging" for 2 1/2 years. Then, instead of making this referral, he suggests that my husband and I go back to marriage counseling, when I had told him repeatedly that I had too many "me" issues that needed to be dealt with before I could start working as a "couple." All I can say is that I went that route and it caused more problems than it cured.

What Blake has said and which I concur is a "pill" will not take away the depression unless what is causing the depression is addressed. In Blake's case it is the "pain" that needs addressing; in my case it was addressing what was causing the "pain."

abusedemotionally

abusedemotionally wrote:

What Blake has said and which I concur is a "pill" will not take away the depression unless what is causing the depression is addressed. In Blake's case it is the "pain" that needs addressing; in my case it was addressing what was causing the "pain."

Blake has declined med trials. Many times you need one WITH the other to achieve maximum effect as Twain has so eloquently explained. He has received neither by choice or intent. His tone on the forum implies lack of trust, or willingness to experiment. Rather he seems more than willing to take the word of others without the same background/genetic makeup as gospel. This has had the effect of delaying recovery (in Blake's case inhibiting) and enhancing a general disdain for the medical community. It has become a self-fulfilling prophecy

In your situation as you clearly detail you did not receive treatment concomitantly delaying recovery.

What you may not realize is the benefit of having multiple medical practitioners online, in one location, with different backgrounds all willing to help. By bouncing ideas off us like this you may be able to find what works best for you. I strongly doubt that many patients are afforded this "care-plan panel" in todays working medical community......Give that some thought. Open hostility (I'm not directing this comment at you) may help the venting process, but alienates the medical community and doesn't ultimately benefit you.

Despite HT's and my "rocky" relationship, I was more that willing to try to help, out of a deep seeded compassion for people... and I think she appreciated that. I want to help, Chris wants to help, Twain wants to help......We're not here to take pot-shots at people. But some of us do not necessarily respond favorably to hostility or animosity towards the profession we've dedicated ourselves towards. As RateMD's has detailed, the majority of ratings are favorable. Thus don't just lump us in with the bad, rather lump us with the good.

Help us....help you.

harleyman-6

harleyman-6 wrote:
abusedemotionally wrote:

What Blake has said and which I concur is a "pill" will not take away the depression unless what is causing the depression is addressed. In Blake's case it is the "pain" that needs addressing; in my case it was addressing what was causing the "pain."

Blake has declined med trials. Many times you need one WITH the other to achieve maximum effect as Twain has so eloquently explained. He has received neither by choice or intent. His tone on the forum implies lack of trust, or willingness to experiment. Rather he seems more than willing to take the word of others without the same background/genetic makeup as gospel. This has had the effect of delaying recovery (in Blake's case inhibiting) and enhancing a general disdain for the medical community. It has become a self-fulfilling prophecy

In your situation as well you did not receive treatment concomitantly (as Twain has detailed), thus delaying recovery.

From what I have gathered from Blake's comments is that he had a treatment plan that was working for him and one doctor decided to change that and take him off of these medications that helped. I think that anyone who is in so much pain and finally has found some relief, only to be cut off and refused these medications and finds themselves back at square one, would make anyone "rant". All Blake was seeking was a better quality of life, which he must have found with the treatment plan that he had been on . . . why does it make doctors so upset that he doesn't want to be a guinea pig and "try" different methods. It is a no wonder that Blake is "depressed." I would be, too, if no one was willing to look at the other side of the issue, but rather point a finger at Blake and say that he was in the wrong.

I've been there . . . done that. Fortunately for me, though, is that I found someone who did believe in me and worked "with" me, and I was able to resolve that which was paining me. I was able to give an "objective" view of the standard of care needed for those of us who had been abused. When I spoke with the College and tried to point out that an broader awareness is needed within the medical community as a whole, but especially within the "mental health" community, so that their training encompasses a better understanding about the effects of sexual abuse and proper treatment of same, they fail to see this. As long as those with power are unwilling to listen to us "common" folk, we will be met with substandard care; and we who speak out are seen to be "non-compliant" because we were not willing to continue with a plan that wasn't working.

EDIT:

As well, have any of you really "listened" to Blake. He has no money. He cannot afford "med trials" so how do you expect him to pay for these trials? He can't work because he is in too much pain. He's in too much pain because he can't get on a regime of medication that will help him and the doctors refuse to give him what does. They want him to go on "med trials." He has no money and can't afford to . . .

Come up with solutions, rather than condemning a man for wanting that which doctors have made unattainable to him.

No wonder Blake is depressed. Sad

abusedemotionally wrote: As

abusedemotionally wrote:

As well, have none of you really "listened" to Blake. He has no money. He cannot afford "med trials" so how do you expect him to pay for these trials? He can't work because he is in too much pain. He's in too much pain because he can't get on a regime of medication that will help him and the doctors refuse to give him what does. They want him to go on "med trials." He has no money and can't afford to . . .

Come up with solutions, rather than condemning a man for wanting that which doctors have made unattainable to him.

No wonder Blake is depressed.

I have tried to stay out of this, but I just can't. You're so right Sherry. Blake can't afford to see a pain specialist to try a little Buspar of Neurontin, and pay for a visit and pay for that drug, just to be compliant, when he has been that route before. Hell I wouldn't either. I have tried them too. They didn't work for me either. And the neural blockade?? Dam, you couldn't pay me to have another one of those!! So am I non compliant? Well, if that's what you want to call it, have it your way. I just know what has worked for me, what will work, and what is a waste of time and money. Does that make me a drug addict? Pfffft It makes me unwilling to waste my time and money. Obviously Blake has been compliant, as at some time he has tried things, as have I. Neurontin doesn't work for me, Buspar doesn't work for me. Neural blockade was horrible and lasted the blink of an eye. I would never do it again. That does not make me non compliant. That also does not make me a drug addict. Every person has a right to pain relief.

abusedemotionally wrote: As

abusedemotionally wrote:

As well, have none of you really "listened" to Blake. He has no money. He cannot afford "med trials" so how do you expect him to pay for these trials? He can't work because he is in too much pain. He's in too much pain because he can't get on a regime of medication that will help him and the doctors refuse to give him what does. They want him to go on "med trials." He has no money and can't afford to . . .

Come up with solutions, rather than condemning a man for wanting that which doctors have made unattainable to him.

No wonder Blake is depressed.

I have tried to stay out of this, but I just can't. You're so right Sherry. Blake can't afford to see a pain specialist to try a little Buspar of Neurontin, and pay for a visit and pay for that drug, just to be compliant, when he has been that route before. Hell I wouldn't either. I have tried them too. They didn't work for me either. And the neural blockade?? Dam, you couldn't pay me to have another one of those!! So am I non compliant? Well, if that's what you want to call it, have it your way. I just know what has worked for me, what will work, and what is a waste of time and money. Does that make me a drug addict? Pfffft It makes me unwilling to waste my time and money. Obviously Blake has been compliant, as at some time he has tried things, as have I. Neurontin doesn't work for me, Buspar doesn't work for me. Neural blockade was horrible and lasted the blink of an eye. I would never do it again. That does not make me non compliant. That also does not make me a drug addict. Every person has a right to pain relief.

Why is standing up for

Why is standing up for yourself considered to be non-compliant?

I can't afford one medicine after another (they aren't inexpensive after all). If I tried something in the past that either 1) made me worse, 2) made me physically ill (throwing up, etc.), 3) cost so much I would have had to declare bankruptcy, 4) made me so weak I wasn't able to work...and so on, not wanting to "try again just to reassure the doctor I am compliant" is my choice.

I don't know about everyone else but paying upwards of $100 per visit (not including the meds), is just out of my reach....especially when you have to go back every week and "try this, try that".

I am compliant. However, I am not an experiment. I am a patient. I do have rights.

This is an interesting book regarding the subject of "ending it all"....

http://www.authorstephenwhite.com/Book_Collection/KillMe/killme.html

Posted twice.....

Posted twice.....

totally agree with HEARTHROB

totally agree with HEARTHROB AND DANIEL MILLER. it would be a waste of time and money just to be a told to come back for more and more tests and/or medicine that may not work.

Are you depressed because

Are you depressed because you are always in pain? what is your life like? are you working? Do you have a good support network..friends and family? when your pain was/is controlled are you still depressed? I hope you feel better .

Can I ask why your doctor

Can I ask why your doctor took away the meds that are working?

What we've got here is

What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach, so you get what we had here last week which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. And I don't like it any more than you men.

You gonna get used to wearin' them chains afer a while, Luke. Don't you never stop listenin' to them clinking. 'Cause they gonna remind you of what I been saying. For your own good.

Sending you a pm,

Sending you a pm, Blake2go.....

abusedemotionally

abusedemotionally wrote:

Come up with solutions, rather than condemning a man for wanting that which doctors have made unattainable to him.

No wonder Blake is depressed. Sad

Antidepressants are generic and quite inexpensive.

Phase 2&3 med trial. They afford a stipend, drugs and medical care. Saying no to being in an experiment is a cop-out. Do you want to feel better or not? He is homeless, and since he's not employed/tied to an area he can migrte to a provider.

Medicare and medicaid which he will qualify for as a disabled, poor person.

He's homeless. He shouldn't have much overhead. He can/should be able to afford the basics with government assistance which he certainly qualifies for. Who knows what pensions he's earned working in the navy/shipyard.

To my understanding he is currently getting what he wants. That doesn't seem to be doing the trick now. Pehaps the recommendations in the past would have been therapeutic by now. We'll never know. Eventually tolerances are built and the body degenerates. So what was no longer is...insofar as therapeutics. Stop living in the here and now, and consider the future....MAYBE that's what his providers were considering in the past.

(No subject)

Dear Blake, I gave some

Dear Blake,
I gave some careful thought last nite to your situation. I can get things wrong, but let me recap, what I see. You live in Mobile Alabama, in a tent. You may have been a construction worker who has injured himself in the course of his work. You have pain that is too severe to work regularly. You have been involved with the medical commu8nity for your pain and some Dr. took meds away and this makes you in general hostile to the medical community. You have no money.

Since every state has some form of Public Aid Health Insurance, could tell me why, if I am not intruding too much, why you have not applied for it? You would be then able to get some medical help and medicines. You should be eligible. If you do this first, the Drs on this board, especially Dr. Harley, will try to help. I will contribute $100.00 toward what you need medically.

Dr. Harley is right, you must put your foot into the water. Take a giant leap of faith. Go get that medical insurance. What depression does is cloud judgment.
You may be weary and tired but you definitely have life left. You have good spirit.

If I have over-stepped my bounds, I apologize. I hate pain. It is the enemy.

Love,
Tomato

tomato22 wrote: Dear

tomato22 wrote:

Dear Blake,
I gave some careful thought last nite to your situation. I can get things wrong, but let me recap, what I see. You live in Mobile Alabama, in a tent. You may have been a construction worker who has injured himself in the course of his work. You have pain that is too severe to work regularly. You have been involved with the medical commu8nity for your pain and some Dr. took meds away and this makes you in general hostile to the medical community. You have no money.

Since every state has some form of Public Aid Health Insurance, could tell me why, if I am not intruding too much, why you have not applied for it? You would be then able to get some medical help and medicines. You should be eligible. If you do this first, the Drs on this board, especially Dr. Harley, will try to help. I will contribute $100.00 toward what you need medically.

Dr. Harley is right, you must put your foot into the water. Take a giant leap of faith. Go get that medical insurance. What depression does is cloud judgment.
You may be weary and tired but you definitely have life left. You have good spirit.

If I have over-stepped my bounds, I apologize. I hate pain. It is the enemy.

Love,
Tomato

I'm about ready to clobber Blake over the head with a 2x4!! Ya hear me, Blake?

Blake and I had a private discussion a few weeks ago about services.......remember, Blake?

Sad Sad Sad

If you hit him, it will

If you hit him, it will hurt.

I do like your style though! Very to the point.

O boy O boy O boy, this was

O boy O boy O boy, this was to be A thread, not the Blake2go thread....
My bud here needs to steal the puter back for a bit. I'll see you all in lil while.

Thanks to all! But you folks are going to kill me with all the typing I'm going to have to do!!

Sasse, I went today, to the SS office and to food stamp office, no joy! But I respect you to much to have been NON COMPLIANT!

RELAX RELAX RELAX

blake2go wrote: Sasse, I

blake2go wrote:

Sasse, I went today, to the SS office and to food stamp office, no joy! But I respect you to much to have been NON COMPLIANT!

Blake,

Tho I appreciate that you respect me, but this is not about me....feel free to PM me and tell me what transpired.

There are ways to receive services for which one is both qualified for and entitled to. Perhaps I'll have to write something and post it here.

Don't forget...........the "2-1-1" number is available throughout most of the country.

Daniel Miller

Daniel Miller wrote:
wishandaprayer wrote:

I have pain tonight. Fell in the parking garage. Sad

Sorry to learn you fell. How badly are you hurt?

My knee was very sore last night, especially going up the stairs, but it felt better today, and I'm sure I'll be fine for the gym tomorrow; my bags are all packed to go.

Twain wrote: blake2go

Twain wrote:
blake2go wrote:

...So in the pain game, offering me Anti D's is the fastest way to insult me. The "it's all in your head"...

"You are not really in pain, you are depressed, that is causing you to feel non existent pain"

....am I going to take a med for clinical depression, when I am not clinically depressed...

Am I to be treated first, as a person in real pain, or as a depressed person?

By definition there is no such thing as "non existent pain". If someone feels pain, then it is real. Noone else can feel another person's pain.

"Anti-depressants" are used even when there is NO depression. They works synergistically with pain medications in modulating pain sensation. They are used for the pain of shingles, the burning pain of diabetic neuropathy, and the pain of cancer - even when the person is NOT depressed.

When chronic pain does lead to depression, anti-depressants can help "get you out of the gutter" so things don't seem so hopeless. They are always used as part of a multi-modal program.

Twain again thank you, "you are not in pain, you are depressed" I heard from the horses mouth.

I have done the reading and spoken with people who have benefited from them, but I have also met and spoken with many more that have not, I am one of them.

I have taken buspar, wellbutrin, paxil, zoloft.... nothing but adverse side effects.
So if anything I lost faith in the doctor who took me off cheap effective meds that I had long term exp with. I was out the money for fees and the cost of the meds to feel worse!?

Funny in my situ, do you think I am not dealing with a lot of anxiety? So would not an anxiolytic, be called for? On top of the fact I have an anxiety condition {Panic disorder}.

Over the years I've taken many an injury, and have ducked the opiates, they tear up my tummy, fog my head, better a hot bath, a strong drink and bed.
Now that I need them, want them, and will put up with the fog and tummy, they are no where to be seen.

abusedemotionally

abusedemotionally wrote:
harleyman-6 wrote:
abusedemotionally wrote:

What Blake has said and which I concur is a "pill" will not take away the depression unless what is causing the depression is addressed. In Blake's case it is the "pain" that needs addressing; in my case it was addressing what was causing the "pain."

Blake has declined med trials. Many times you need one WITH the other to achieve maximum effect as Twain has so eloquently explained. He has received neither by choice or intent. His tone on the forum implies lack of trust, or willingness to experiment. Rather he seems more than willing to take the word of others without the same background/genetic makeup as gospel. This has had the effect of delaying recovery (in Blake's case inhibiting) and enhancing a general disdain for the medical community. It has become a self-fulfilling prophecy

In your situation as well you did not receive treatment concomitantly (as Twain has detailed), thus delaying recovery.

From what I have gathered from Blake's comments is that he had a treatment plan that was working for him and one doctor decided to change that and take him off of these medications that helped. I think that anyone who is in so much pain and finally has found some relief, only to be cut off and refused these medications and finds themselves back at square one, would make anyone "rant". All Blake was seeking was a better quality of life, which he must have found with the treatment plan that he had been on . . . why does it make doctors so upset that he doesn't want to be a guinea pig and "try" different methods. It is a no wonder that Blake is "depressed." I would be, too, if no one was willing to look at the other side of the issue, but rather point a finger at Blake and say that he was in the wrong.

I've been there . . . done that. Fortunately for me, though, is that I found someone who did believe in me and worked "with" me, and I was able to resolve that which was paining me. I was able to give an "objective" view of the standard of care needed for those of us who had been abused. When I spoke with the College and tried to point out that an broader awareness is needed within the medical community as a whole, but especially within the "mental health" community, so that their training encompasses a better understanding about the effects of sexual abuse and proper treatment of same, they fail to see this. As long as those with power are unwilling to listen to us "common" folk, we will be met with substandard care; and we who speak out are seen to be "non-compliant" because we were not willing to continue with a plan that wasn't working.

EDIT:

As well, have any of you really "listened" to Blake. He has no money. He cannot afford "med trials" so how do you expect him to pay for these trials? He can't work because he is in too much pain. He's in too much pain because he can't get on a regime of medication that will help him and the doctors refuse to give him what does. They want him to go on "med trials." He has no money and can't afford to . . .

Come up with solutions, rather than condemning a man for wanting that which doctors have made unattainable to him.

No wonder Blake is depressed. Sad

Abby, yep you hit the nail on the head, when I hit the docs office it is a one shot deal. There is no money for games and experiments.
At this point I've been denied, alprazolam for panic disorder,soma for muscle spasms although I've taken both since 93/ 95 till 98 when docs wanted to play, anti d games.

Recently from a clinic here, where I had my meds for one month, had to go back for refills as the rx was written for 1 month and had a different doc, flies in and goes oh no I'm going to put you on buspar and flexeril, I said NO! been there seen it done it not doing it again, he left in a huff, I went from 4mg alpraz to 0 overnight with no taper dose supplied. No soma.
Nor the other meds I asked for plavix for what may be PAD or DVT, nor the flomax as my tinkling has become a problem.

I am a nice guy, when the doctor walks in, I may look him over pretty hard, but I am polite, articulate, and can quote the PDR on the meds I am taking or wish to have.
I am there with a purpose. I will listen to what they have to say, and if in any case it sounds good, is workable, ( a med that costs 500 for a month, no matter how good it is, is not workable)

It is only when I can feel myself being blown off, my purpose, thwarted, that you will see my temper come up. The edge in my voice, body language, you will know that you have just made a blood enemy.

Physiologically and psychologically, jerking my chain is not good medicine.

tomato22 wrote: Dear

tomato22 wrote:

Dear Blake,
I gave some careful thought last nite to your situation. I can get things wrong, but let me recap, what I see. You live in Mobile Alabama, in a tent. You may have been a construction worker who has injured himself in the course of his work. You have pain that is too severe to work regularly. You have been involved with the medical commu8nity for your pain and some Dr. took meds away and this makes you in general hostile to the medical community. You have no money.

Since every state has some form of Public Aid Health Insurance, could tell me why, if I am not intruding too much, why you have not applied for it? You would be then able to get some medical help and medicines. You should be eligible. If you do this first, the Drs on this board, especially Dr. Harley, will try to help. I will contribute $100.00 toward what you need medically.

Dr. Harley is right, you must put your foot into the water. Take a giant leap of faith. Go get that medical insurance. What depression does is cloud judgment.
You may be weary and tired but you definitely have life left. You have good spirit.

If I have over-stepped my bounds, I apologize. I hate pain. It is the enemy.

Love,
Tomato

Dear Tomato,
If you are not sweet as sugar! Well I did want this to be a topic, as in the title.
Not the blake2go show.

But you have asked, I have beaten this body into dust, sports as a kid started the process. I worked construction since I was 17, what goes up must come down.
Buildings went up, I came down. construction does not supply med insurance. You take your blows go home stick a band aide on and back you go, failing to show puts more load on your buddies, so you go. Throw in time and gravity. My right leg from the heel to the hip is shot. My lower and mid back, neck damaged, do not know what is wrong never had the bucks to find out, if I had there was no bucks to fix.

Clinics are a joke, and not very funny jokes, all poor people are drug seekers,all poor people lie, poor people are never really in pain.

I have been to several since this odyssey began, one freak show after another.

Social services you have asked about, I have been to the salvation army, VOA, coalition for the homeless, 15 place, social security, The waterfront rescue mission, "the Savage clinic for the homeless" (yes that really is the name) the Ohio human services and a few others I can't remember, the upshot of all this activity is, I am still homeless and broken.

So please understand if I were in all of your shoes I'd recommend to a person in my place, the same thing " hey bud call someone, they are there to help"
Sadly, no they are not, doubt they ever were, or ever will be.

Now there another million people on the street as they lost their homes and jobs.

If there was something to be done, there just is not enough to go around.

Thank you for the offer of funds, but please hold on to your bucks.
You have provided my warm fuzzy for the day, Super!

Edit, sorry all of the above has been written, when very tired and not feeling up the fixing the damn thing.

Dear Blake, Thanks for

Dear Blake,
Thanks for your response. I am not yet clear on whether or not you have medicaid insurance. Doesn't the clinic(s) you use want some type of insurance? How is it funded? If in fact you have medicaid you can go to a private Dr.(who accepts it) and get a good physical exam with MRI, or Cat scans or whatever is neccessary to see what is happening in your body, limbs and back.

Since you did not have medical insurance on your jobs, would I be correct in saying that you used clinics for your medical needs and did not have a regular doctor who saw you consistently. Thus, your medical records are scattered in Ohio, Savannah, and Mobile(ect) and would be hard to gather. And, since you had not had a proper diagnosis on your body ailments, Drs might be reluctant to prescribe. If at some point you did have these things done, what was the outcome?

You will not get Social Security disability unless a Dr. says you will be either disabled for more than a year or are permanently disabled and cannot work a full time job. Under S.S. D. you are allowed to work some part-time hours without losing benefits.

Of course you need an anti-anxiety medicine. Unfortunely you have been in the lower level of medical care in this country that exists for lower income people. It is a tragedy but you can learn to get yourself out of this system. Even if you have medicaid, it can help you out.

In my 47th yr I began to experience spotting(female problem). I was unemployed and had no insurance. I had a few bucks and went to my gyne telling him I had no insurance. He said, 'I DON'T CARE, You need to have a D&C, now." He did the procdure in our local community hospital and found that I had cancer. He saw me once again, referred me to oncologists, and said the treatment was on them. I received no bill.
The hospital's policy is to turn no one away. I couldn't believe it and asked to see their mission statement. It is quite clear--no-one can be turned away. I had no hospital bill. That policy still exists more than 20 yrs later.(So I'm old, so what)

So, I am paying it forward. It is sincere gesture. I hope I will be able to help. Love
Tomato

I was turned away when I was

I was turned away when I was between jobs and had no insurance. It does happen.

Hi Tomato22, to the forum.

Hi Tomato22, to the forum. Smiling I didn't want to hijack Blake's thread,but I couldn't help myself to come say how SWEET YOU ARE!! I hope your stay here is a pleasant one. Many blessings to you. Smiling And Blake too.

tomato22 wrote: Dear Blake,

tomato22 wrote:

Dear Blake,
Thanks for your response. I am not yet clear on whether or not you have medicaid insurance. Doesn't the clinic(s) you use want some type of insurance? How is it funded? If in fact you have medicaid you can go to a private Dr.(who accepts it) and get a good physical exam with MRI, or Cat scans or whatever is neccessary to see what is happening in your body, limbs and back.

Since you did not have medical insurance on your jobs, would I be correct in saying that you used clinics for your medical needs and did not have a regular doctor who saw you consistently. Thus, your medical records are scattered in Ohio, Savannah, and Mobile(ect) and would be hard to gather. And, since you had not had a proper diagnosis on your body ailments, Drs might be reluctant to prescribe. If at some point you did have these things done, what was the outcome?

You will not get Social Security disability unless a Dr. says you will be either disabled for more than a year or are permanently disabled and cannot work a full time job. Under S.S. D. you are allowed to work some part-time hours without losing benefits.

Of course you need an anti-anxiety medicine. Unfortunely you have been in the lower level of medical care in this country that exists for lower income people. It is a tragedy but you can learn to get yourself out of this system. Even if you have medicaid, it can help you out.

In my 47th yr I began to experience spotting(female problem). I was unemployed and had no insurance. I had a few bucks and went to my gyne telling him I had no insurance. He said, 'I DON'T CARE, You need to have a D&C, now." He did the procdure in our local community hospital and found that I had cancer. He saw me once again, referred me to oncologists, and said the treatment was on them. I received no bill.
The hospital's policy is to turn no one away. I couldn't believe it and asked to see their mission statement. It is quite clear--no-one can be turned away. I had no hospital bill. That policy still exists more than 20 yrs later.(So I'm old, so what)

So, I am paying it forward. It is sincere gesture. I hope I will be able to help. Love
Tomato

Dear Tomato,
I am glad that you were treated well and with compassion.
I also thank you for your concern.
I have mostly seen docs in practice only since this began, have I set foot in a clinic. A mistake I will never repeat. I have worked all over the country, I prob have a record of a one time visit for a one time fix in 15-20 states?

Was told that I could get medicaid only after approval for SSD, hell if all who were in need, could get medicaid, there would be no health crisis...

As for hospitals not turning you away, well they can, they do, see "Jane" is the example here. People being dumped into cabs still in gowns and put out on the skid.

http://www.citizen.org/publications/release.cfm?ID=4891

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/17/60minutes/main2823079.shtml

I have my own war story of resorting to the hospital after a TIA/ pin stoke?... got to different answers, before being shown the door.

Now poor Tomato, you are going to feel really foolish, for I have been informed by the police today as they came homeless hunting again, and ran me thru the puter.
That 'I do not exist', I know, I feel a lil foolish too.

Now can we PLEASE get this back ON TOPIC.

Pain, is seen as suspect.

Depression, is a mixed bag of tricks, the meds used to treat it comes with a
"black box" suicide warning.

Suicide, equals death, not something you get to dodge, no matter what. Is a cure for what ails you.

Being suicidal, is considered to be a mental problem, not as a last ditch effort to end the unendurable.

Since this country closed it's mental hospitals, which on the one hand made sense as they were snake pits. Now mental illness is dealt with by the police/ courts.
Not really the best plan...

Lil blurry here, there is a point here, somewhere, and I'll fall into eventually...

Ah there is! You have a person in front of you, who is in pain, depressed, and is on the brink of suicide, if things don't get better.

What do you do?

Do first?

Treat first?

Do you deny them pain meds because they are suicidal? Do you start SSRI's which will take time to work if they do?

Do you lock them up?

Today I have lost my sense

Today I have lost my sense of humor, I can't remember ever being without it.
For me it is like finding that I have no hands.

I am sitting in the apt of a good acquaintance, who loans me his home, on weekends he is away, a win win situation for both of us, I live indoors with all the trappings, his cat is cared for and he finds two large meals in his freezer.

No matter how bad I feel, right now I'd be feeling pretty good, today I am not.

I have now been awake, in pain, depressed and badly stressed for some 50 plus hours.

This is a thread that I wished for all to join in, and hoped that others, as they showed up would add to or find useful information in. I also meant this thread to reach the doctors, who are here, those who lurk, and those who will show up later.

This thread was not to be the sole domain of blake, but now that I feel like the poster child, for:

"Pain, depression and the cure", I'm going to let go, I am now in pain to just below the point where I shut down, physically and mentally, my thoughts come in dizzy waves, I am depressed to the point that I am flat, hollowed out. I am today in shock, deeply hurt, betrayed.

As for the cure, to wiped out to even think about it, much less try for it.

This all is going to come out anyway it does, I find myself stripped bare, I am going let out a lot poison, I hope all of you will come to understand the homeless, those in great pain, and those whose world is black, better.

Those who are already there, I hope I will speak a few words for you.

Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,

Boy howdy, has ALL of this been rolling through mind, over and over.

In the last number of weeks, I have injured myself in a fall, in work I had no business doing, been precluded from performing due to weather, and frozen solid each night. I was pretty sure this was all, as bad as it was going to get, I was wrong.

I lay in my bed, Wednesday morning, cold, hurting, exhausted and wondered how I was going to teach a paper mache, class at the special needs complex that afternoon.

When I heard the tromping of shoes headed towards my camp, and that of my next tent neighbor. I knew who it was and what they had come for, so I began stuffing all of the things I could not lose in my pockets. When the call came "YOU IN THE TENT COME OUT, COME OUT NOW!" Now we homeless folks both hate this and are all to familiar with the process. so I emerged hunched and limping to find 6 pigs (yes, PIGS as you will see)
And a guy who was on a "ride along"

Well as these things go, they all took turns shouting questions at me, "why are you here, how long have you been here, name DOB, what are you a bum, what do you do steal, to good to work, where are you wanted, what did you drink last night" and on.

It gets old, it is a form of harassment, with two purposes, one, it is fun for them, two, they want to see if they can provoke you to make a move, attack or flee, either will do. I failed to play, they ran me through the computer over and over again.

While I sat and waited hating them and life, I watched two of them disappear towards my neighbors camp, where the same command was put out, I knew he was not there, i heard but the zipper go, and some other sounds that in my fatigue, I failed to recognize.

The cops came back with his prescription bottles, in hand, heart meds the fellow is 62 and newly out of work and home. Don't know much about him, we homeless do not wish to enter anothers hell, or share ours. I said " he needs those"

The question resumed, who is he, where is he, what do you know about him, last name, when will he be back, etc.
I answered don't know over and over, and explained the whole private hell thing to them.

The cop who was running me came back and said he had run me in AL, GA, Fla, OH, and MA. Why MA I have no idea, and told me that, I do not exist, still had the sense of humor, and said "well that does answer a lot of questions".

The whole time I looked only at the guy who was ride along, each time we made eye contact, I raised my eyebrows, and displayed my palms, to say are you getting this, can you believe this shyte? I think I got through.

The pigs then seemed to lose interest, packed up and left, I was still very uneasy.
I have the 6th sense, but to not believe it or listen to it, to my harm.

I then walked over to the fellows tent and from about 40 feet I could see what appeared to be the tent door open, and a blanket tossed on the ground, I was temped to go and close his tent, but we are territoriality and suspicious people, and i thought if he came back while I was in his camp near his open door, it would be a problem. I left it.

I wanted to warn him that they were coming back, I knew it, but did not wish to leave an open note that the pigs, would see, and have it boomerang on me. So I wrote the note and stuck in a walmart bag, and set on the side of his trail, trash to the pigs, a red flag to a forest dweller.

I left and did a few errands, in prep for class, the whole time with a deep sense of foreboding, unshakable.

We had class and then worked with a few other residents on some of thier, small household problems, clogged sink etc. I left and went to my corner store and drank coffee played on the puter and stayed warm, related the day to my buds there.

I returned to the woods, the feeling only stronger as I approached camp, got the door of my tent it was closed, and no clear sign of disaster for a moment, I started to draw a deep breath of relief.

When my eye caught a flap of fabric, I looked closer my tent had been slashed, I was not shocked as I already "knew", the more I looked the more slashing I found, they had come back and slashed my tent, did it in a way as to be a dire threat, and in a way that will not be repairable without an industrial sewing machine. Nothing touched in the tent nothing stolen, or moved.

I sat in the tent, my thoughts all over the place, I felt empty, i thought I should be very very angry, I should shout, curse and throw things. just did not have it in me.

As my thoughts swirled, I thought these men are paid to uphold the law, to protect and serve. They had betrayed all of that, it came to me that this was a terrorist attack. It was working, I became frightened, what was I going to do? go? how?
How much time did I have, when would they be back? to do what? a panic attack started hard to say if it was pig related or just one of the usual.

I had to get on my feet, to breathe, and thought OH shyte, my nieghbor!
using a candle I headed his way calling out to him, knowing that this had been done to his, while the cops had me in torment, that was the sound, the tearing the ripping of plastic, I kicked my self for not checking his tent in the day.
I feared I was going to find him dead of a heart attack from the shock and no meds.

As I got close the door that I thought open was in fact cut open, slashes all over the tent, the tarps he had over and on the side of his tent, slashed, but no him!?

I walked around in the woods thinking he may have fallen out anywhere trying to get out with what he had clearly grabbed. No body found. I have no idea where he is, he left boots, a backpack, vitamins, first aide kit and so much I know a homeless person needs, he must have fled in terror.

I went back to my tent, worried about the old boy, wondering if he'd come back for his gear, I sat for hours till dawn, I have no idea where I was for that time, I was both there and not there, just watching my tent shreds flap.

I am sitting here now wondering during that time, would that have been the time I would have sought the cure, did others in that nowhere place?

I think, YES. I think, I might not of thought of the cure, because of many reasons, shear fatigue being the biggest .

So I spent the morning packing once again, no point in trying for sleep, and now have it all stashed, waiting for dark for me to move it here, come Sunday I will have to be back in it, somehow...

So when that dirty, reeking of alcohol, homelesss guy comes up and asks for change, don't drop some contempt on him, he probable has enough of it for himself as it is.

Don't waste your energies, hating, loathing him, he has his own personal private hell 24/7

Doctors, where ever you are, give us a break, please really listen, when a person says, "I'm at my end", it would be safer and better for all if you acted on that.

Not all of us are seekers, nuts, fakers, addicts, you do us a great disservice, and betray your oath. When you turn on us.

Well this came out much clearer than I could have hoped for, what I would ask of all of you is UNDERSTANDING, in my life all I wanted to do is understand and be understood, please do not bring me anything else here, other than understanding.
Nothing else is of any value to me.

I thank you for all of you for being here, you have become friends, and an odd sort of family to me.
I am dead tired, my chest grinds, and I am wired on stress, I'm going to go lay down.

I may see you all later, then again I may sleep for two days.
"To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub"
Oh please, no damn dreams!

Blake, believe it or not.. I

Blake, believe it or not.. I think about you every day. I can tell you horror stories of what I went through once injured by a medical person. What a friggin liar he is. I hope he is happy living a lie. I hope his children and family some day realize he is a liar. They are the ones who have to live with with the lie now. I did not post most of them. Believe me... I have my stories and could write a book. My file is over a box big. There are some who should no way be in the medical field let alone near chronic pain patients. It's disgusting!!! The arrogance and know it all!!! I don't know how I would survive if I lived in a tent. I don't think I could do it.

Blake, but for chance I

Blake, but for chance I would be walking your path.

Uphold the law. That is past. Take the "law" and "show them" is now. Too bad many of them don't have a clue about the law. No matter a persons status in life, destroying their property is still against the law. Taking their medications is still against the law. Treating them less than as a human...well, not against the law (exactly) but against all moral code and ethics.

A judge once stated that while police officers "uphold the law", they know nothing about how it works. They do not take law classes. Ask two officers the same question about the law, you will receive two different answers.

You see, those who do not understand, or fear, what they do not know must take an action the majority of us would find to be reprehensible. They crave the feeling of power. Power they will never obtain...no matter what...as they look down upon others. Others who have done them no harm.

You, I believe, are wired not only on stress but also on pain and injustice. Sleep and allow your being to repair as best it is able. Look at things once you have rested.

Those hooligans intend to drive you and your neighbors "out of town". Even calling them as you did is too good a term. Pigs do not hassle people for the joy of it.

"Every person is my teacher in that I may learn from them". Too bad some are unteachable.

Keep us posted and do not give up. I am keeping your sense of humor in a safe place.

I would think that slashing

I would think that slashing your tent should be against the law. I would suggest that you report the police that bullied you and destroyed your home, but I don't know if you would get anywhere doing that.

You must feel completely hopeless, and that is understandable. I hope that you have a good sleep; it sounds like you really need a good long sleep.

Blake, I am so sorry that

Blake, I am so sorry that you have been through so many ordeals in such a short time. It is bad enough losing your home, but when people try taking away your dignity, that is really too much for anyone to handle. I really wish that there was something that I could do for you.

Blake, I can't say it enough

Blake, I can't say it enough how very sorry I am to hear what you are going through! Your ability to adapt to these abhorrent situations is truly commendable. When I was a little girl I was taught never to judge another unless I walked a mile in their shoes, I'm sure we've all heard this? Unfortunately so many don't ascribe to this teaching. I really admire that even though you are clearly going through hell you can still stand up and speak for so many who don't have your strength. Thank you for sharing your life experiences with us. I read somewhere that most are a paycheck away from being homeless. Add to that your physical limitations you still teach others and care to bring others joy, you really are a special person. I hope and pray that your situation improves soon, you truly deserve a break. Hugs, Patty

Blake, Did you go to the

Blake,
Did you go to the police and make a harassment complaint? I know that in this instance it wouldn't do any good, and you might get laughed at, but it should still go on record, and you should still have that right. And to detail the damage that was done to your tent.

I'm just sooo sorry for you, Blake. What rotten treatment.

What of the 'Coalition for the Homeless'? Do you know if there could be help there?

Do you know what happened to your neighbor? Did he ever come back?

Blake, go to the county

Blake, go to the county police department, advise them that your homeless (due to no fault of you own) and that you are suicidal, you should be held for 72 hrs in the county hospital, advise the doctor of ALL of your needs..... I am not famillary will AL law but they're are required to hold you for 72 hrs at the hospital.... It is my hope that you get a doctor that will listen to you, your LIFE is IMPORTANT....and you should fight to get it back, NO exceptions..... I know your hurting, I know you've tried MANY routes, try one more.......if this doesn't work, try something else.... I am not giving up on you, and I will take it personally if you give up on yourself!! Please try..... if this doesn't work, we'll come up with something else

TRULY,TRULY SAD Blake!! It

TRULY,TRULY SAD Blake!! It pains me to hear what you have said!! It also pains me that the man in the BIG white house CAN'T do ANYTHING about it?? Just so very sad indeed. Sad Sad http://www.eji.org/eji/node/325 I wish I could bring you comfort Blake,it's so sad I can't do anything but PRAY. Sad Huge hugs Blake.

What do you do when you have

What do you do when you have been fighting chronic, incurable, terminal, worsening pain for 20 years? How long can the inner strength and will to fight it endure?
Every human being has their breaking point. I give myself credit for being a fighter and having a strong, stubborn will but enough is enough. I am 59 and have no life anymore. It's the quality not the quantity of life that matters. Day after day I am on a treadmill of depression, anxiety, and physical pain. I face nothing but the same or worse. I am not producing anything of value to this world except being a glut on the medical resources that I need to stay alive. No one needs me, I am totally alone, a shut-in, and can no longer do anything except sit in a chair all day with my lap-top. I have been on all the depression and anxiety meds. Nothing works anymore. The only thing that keeps me from suicide are my religious beliefs. And so I sit here and wait for death.

Those that do wrong,WILL

Those that do wrong,WILL answer to God. Blake,please know that.Also, Adding another link here: Homes not handcuffs.. http://nlchp.org/content/pubs/2009HomesNotHandcuffs1.pdf The MAN in the BIG house SHOULD be doing something to help. jmo.

ill_elderly wrote: What do

ill_elderly wrote:

What do you do when you have been fighting chronic, incurable, terminal, worsening pain for 20 years? How long can the inner strength and will to fight it endure?
Every human being has their breaking point. I give myself credit for being a fighter and having a strong, stubborn will but enough is enough. I am 59 and have no life anymore. It's the quality not the quantity of life that matters. Day after day I am on a treadmill of depression, anxiety, and physical pain. I face nothing but the same or worse. I am not producing anything of value to this world except being a glut on the medical resources that I need to stay alive. No one needs me, I am totally alone, a shut-in, and can no longer do anything except sit in a chair all day with my lap-top. I have been on all the depression and anxiety meds. Nothing works anymore. The only thing that keeps me from suicide are my religious beliefs. And so I sit here and wait for death.

My Senior,

Welcome to the board, you may have found your new purpose here.

I hear you! I understand, and that is to be the purpose of this thread, this is not the hemlock society, but rather that dark corner that we are forced into. The corner that presents only one way out, the cure.

Only the truly mentally ill, the foolish, leap to the cure, without looking around.

I do not know what troubles you, or what you have done and undergone, but it is clear that it has not been enough. I ask you to hold on, perhaps your witness, will be of benefit to others.

I now have this one romping around in my head, why not let it romp in yours for a lil while.

DO NOT GO GENTLE INTO THAT GOOD NIGHT

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Thanks to all who have offered good thoughts, as for going to the police for complaint/ commitment, NO.

Just got up an hour ago, feeling real slack/ fuzzy, it is raining and I really need to be scouting a new set of woods..... oh well I'm sure the trees will be there later.

Ah it is so nice to be indoors, you know it is as they say, you never know what you had till you lose it. I look at a toilet, running water, a stove, a comfy chair in a whole new way.

I remember wanting stuff I did not need, and having my elders point out in having my health, I had everything, my responce, to quote Pam "Pffffft"

The young are stupid, but an honest stupid.

ill_elderly wrote: What do

ill_elderly wrote:

What do you do when you have been fighting chronic, incurable, terminal, worsening pain for 20 years? How long can the inner strength and will to fight it endure?
Every human being has their breaking point. I give myself credit for being a fighter and having a strong, stubborn will but enough is enough. I am 59 and have no life anymore. It's the quality not the quantity of life that matters. Day after day I am on a treadmill of depression, anxiety, and physical pain. I face nothing but the same or worse. I am not producing anything of value to this world except being a glut on the medical resources that I need to stay alive. No one needs me, I am totally alone, a shut-in, and can no longer do anything except sit in a chair all day with my lap-top. I have been on all the depression and anxiety meds. Nothing works anymore. The only thing that keeps me from suicide are my religious beliefs. And so I sit here and wait for death.

I need you more than you will ever realize.

Chronic Pain Support

Chronic Pain Support Group
http://www.chronicpainsupport.org/

Chronic Pain Support Group
A community of patients, family members and friends dedicated to dealing with Chronic Pain, together.
http://www.mdjunction.com/chronic-pain

Daily Strength
http://www.dailystrength.org/c/Chronic-Pain/support-group

ChoiceZ wrote: Chronic Pain

ChoiceZ wrote:

Chronic Pain Support Group
http://www.chronicpainsupport.org/

Chronic Pain Support Group
A community of patients, family members and friends dedicated to dealing with Chronic Pain, together.
http://www.mdjunction.com/chronic-pain

Daily Strength
http://www.dailystrength.org/c/Chronic-Pain/support-group

I think the CPSG has been defunct for some time. Their website seems to be devoid of any active MSN Groups.

Thank you CZ! I found my old

Thank you CZ!

I found my old camp mate, today ...... he is ok, just freaked out, scared the hell out of him, I was not there, my tent shredded, he had no idea who did this to him and wondered if they were still around. He had been badgered by the cops some 2 weeks before this happened, and they had left, not having caused him trouble.

He's got his meds, and is trying to find a better area with less CRIME.

I have found a new camp, I will try hiding in plain sight, people only see what they expect to see.

I have recovered most of my sense of humor, Yippee!

I will not be making a donation to the policeman's ball this year.

....Blake, so glad to hear

....Blake, so glad to hear that you have come thru it OK, and that your camp matey is OK also.

I hope that you will be safer at your new site.

And YIPPEE, that your wonderful sense of humor is back...

I'm a pretty good seamstress, and if I was there, would have done a bang up and creative patch job on your tent!!!!

Best of.....or should I say wishing you better luck................pam

blake2go wrote: I will not

blake2go wrote:

I will not be making a donation to the policeman's ball this year.

That's good. Because I don't think that it would have been pretty. Laughing out loud

Pain can be

Pain can be treated.
Depression can be treated.
Suicide can be treated, providing you have a friendly deity.

And yet an army of depressed hurting, people lay dead by their own hand.

Why is that?

The uncooperative deity I get.

Right now if I had an appt. with a doc, you all know, what he does not, what I will not be given time to tell.

I have nothing for a goose chase, and will need to be taken seriously from the get go.

I will not be.
So options?

Blake - If you are asking

Blake - If you are asking what you should do so that a doctor will listen to you, I would suggest putting it in writing.

I would use this forum to formulate what you need the doctor to hear, and make it succinct, so that the doctor will take the time to listen to you.

Then, maybe the doctors here could tell you if they think your written note is appropriate or not.

Well this was a broader

Well this was a broader question, only framed from my point of view.

Anyone who is of humble means, with or without insurance, faces the same battle.

I did the letter thing with the doc I am saving to see, but it was not a good deal.

I called the office talked to who ever answered, explained my troubles, with the least emphasis on the pain. I did not want to waste money on a doc who will be uncooperative, I need the following, does the doc rx these, "yes" Will the doctor read a letter to him, on my needs "yes, you can send an email here". ok. Wrote it all out, asked that they call me or email with a go ahead.

Heard nothing, called, did you rcv, my email "yes" did the doctor see it "no" will you see that the doctor does, "no"

"He does RX those meds though" at that dosage? "I don't know you will have to talk to the doctor"
Dear I am trying desperately to get some help, and coming up there to have my chain jerked and my money stolen.

Is not going to be GOOD for any of us. Do You Understand?!

So I am a very unhappy, ballistically angry, damaged individual, and I have been invited by a doctors office to come "play".

There is NO PLAY left in me.

So who else is out there balanced on a pin head, and has been invited to play, what are they going to do, what will they be forced into?

Blake, have you applied yet,

Blake, have you applied yet, or gotten medicaid?

I'm just thinking of how you can go without breaking the bank. Because maybe if you can see a doc without breaking the bank, then you will not have to come across so desperate, or angry.

Your approach is wrong. I truly hope that you didn't actually say this: "Dear I am trying desperately to get some help, and coming up there to have my chain jerked and my money stolen."

I know where you're coming from, in that you know what works for you and what is a waste of time and money, but you can't just call up a doctor's office offering to make an appointment IF the doctor can guarantee that he is willing to Rx __________drug at _______strength, and only that!!!

What doctor will be willing to see you under those circumstances?

Some are good at listening when you tell them that you have tried Buspar, Celebrex, Neurontin, and those have not been of any help.

Believe me, I'm only trying to help. Your approach is not going to work.

Don't you know any other chronic pain sufferers? Word of mouth is the best way.

I know of a doctor near me who I hear is very generous Rxing. I have never gone to him, but would if I had the need.

Your approach is wrong. I

Your approach is wrong. I truly hope that you didn't actually say this: "Dear I am trying desperately to get some help, and coming up there to have my chain jerked and my money stolen."

My approach, I've played all the roles, the dullard, the lab rat, the grateful yes man
The cooperative, the educated self aware.

Yep that is just what I said, the edge in my voice would have cut glass, she told me that my letter would be seen by the doctor and it was not, nor would be, the jerking of the chain had begun, before I had ever set foot in the office.

I can only get medicaid after I qual for ssi ssd. Then doctors look at PT using it, as a bother.

You know, I was taught by my father, to never back a man into a corner. When I asked why, he said because once you have done that, he only has one way out, straight through you, always leave a man a way out.

I am impressed at how many people have and want to, back me into a corner, and the primal urges it brings to the surface in me.

There is NO PLAY in me anymore, I recognize that in others and somehow no one seems to see it in me, curious...

So my situation is only slightly different than another, WE are both broken, precluded from just going and getting our meds from the pharmacy, and the Gatekeepers wants to play games.

Who wins?

Blake,I will also start

Blake,I will also start praying a good doctor will find you,along with you finding a good doc to help you with what you need.

blake2go wrote: I can only

blake2go wrote:

I can only get medicaid after I qual for ssi ssd.

That is not true.

Public Assistance (Welfare) comes with Medicaid (from the outset), if you qualify and it seems to me you do, unless there are facts to which I am unaware.

SSDI comes with MediCARE but only after two years.

Not 100% certain on this but I believe SSI comes with Medicaid from the beginning. I'll have to check.

Charity Care may possibly be an option if you are treated in a hospital or and Emergent Care Center.

Blake, another resource worth trying is modest needs. org

http://www.modestneeds.org/

Not everyone gets approved, but it's woth a shot. If you sign up let us know as some of us may want to donate to you.

I entered into social

I entered into social contract in 1973, with the social security administration.
I gave them my money, with the understanding that if I became socially insecure or when I reached 65, my money would be returned to me.

I am now and have been socially insecure, I will never reach 65.

Hell of a scam, makes Bernie Madoff , look like a street corner hustler.

I get a warm fuzzy every time I watch old folks, buying dog food for dinner, and trying to buy meds 3 pills at a time, on their social security money.

Shoot, I can't get MY money back, and everyone keeps telling me to go to the government for someone else's money....?!

blake2go wrote: I entered

blake2go wrote:

I entered into social contract in 1973, with the social security administration.
I gave them my money, with the understanding that if I became socially insecure or when I reached 65, my money would be returned to me.

I am now and have been socially insecure, I will never reach 65.

Hell of a scam, makes Bernie Madoff , look like a street corner hustler.

I get a warm fuzzy every time I watch old folks, buying dog food for dinner, and trying to buy meds 3 pills at a time, on their social security money.

Shoot, I can't get MY money back, and everyone keeps telling me to go to the government for someone else's money....?!

If you mean the citizens of America as "someone else", I am willing for you to take some of my money. I'm not using it, probably won't in the future, am comfortable for now, so go get it. The money isn't doing much good just sitting around.

If you meant something else, I haven't had coffee yet and am still partially asleep.

Ah Dan you're the man! Won't

Ah Dan you're the man! Won't be seeing any of your money anymore than I will be seeing mine.

Now if any of ya have a spare plane ticket to Haiti, a whole hospital ship arrived.

It is the USNS Mercy.

Now that's me trouble, always in the wrong place at the wrong time, what ya gonna do?

Blake, everyone needs a

Blake, everyone needs a little help up from friends at some point in their life, and your friends here are trying to give you just that, here and now.

We understand that you're feeling stuck in one heck of a rut and trying to function in a vicious circle of needing identification to access services and needing financial resources to get your ID renewed. Getting out of that vicious circle can feel defeating, if not impossible. Untreated pain just makes it all that much more worse. It can be be done; you just need to accept a little help. Once you have your ID again, you'll be able to apply and obtain some government help and have access to medical services.

Once receiving some governmental financial and medical assistance, you'll be in a position to get proper medical treatment, and in due course, to help another friend, and so on. This negative vicious circle can be reversed, but you need to take the first step in accepting some help from friends who want to help you.

Blake, please put together a plan for chasing down what you need to, fees, transportation, postage, whatever, and get yourself signed up on modestneeds.org.

You just need a little help up, so let your friends here try to do just that.

We'll look for your registration.

Strawberry Jam wrote:

Blake, another resource worth trying is modest needs. org

http://www.modestneeds.org/

Not everyone gets approved, but it's woth a shot. If you sign up let us know as some of us may want to donate to you.

MIC is right.think positive.

MIC is right.think positive. just remember CANT never did anything.

Strawberry Jam

Strawberry Jam wrote:
blake2go wrote:

I can only get medicaid after I qual for ssi ssd.

That is not true.

Public Assistance (Welfare) comes with Medicaid (from the outset), if you qualify and it seems to me you do, unless there are facts to which I am unaware.

SSDI comes with MediCARE but only after two years.

Not 100% certain on this but I believe SSI comes with Medicaid from the beginning. I'll have to check.

Charity Care may possibly be an option if you are treated in a hospital or an Emergent Care Center.

Blake, another resource worth trying is modest needs. org

http://www.modestneeds.org/

Not everyone gets approved, but it's woth a shot. If you sign up let us know as some of us may want to donate to you.

I'm quoting my own post regarding SSI, straight from the SSA website:

Medicaid for SSI Recipients

The District of Columbia and 32 states provide Medicaid to people eligible for Supplemental Security Income (SSI). The individual must be eligible for SSI and meet all Medicaid eligibility requirements. In these states, the SSI application also is the Medicaid application. Medicaid eligibility usually starts the same month as SSI eligibility, but in certain circumstances can also be retroactive for up to three months.

The following jurisdictions use the same rules to decide eligibility for Medicaid as Social Security uses for SSI, but a separate application for Medicaid must be filed with the local medical assistance office: Alaska, Idaho, Kansas, Nebraska, Nevada, Oregon, Utah, and the Northern Mariana Islands.

The following states use their own eligibility rules for Medicaid, which are different from Social Security's SSI rules. In these states, a separate application for Medicaid must be filed: Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota, Missouri, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, and Virginia.

For more information, see Medicaid for SSI recipients

And this link is all about SSI:

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pgm/links_ssi.htm

====================================================================================

In addition, I have found this disability lawyer's blog worthwhile in answering questions not addressed on the SSA website.

http://www.ssdanswers.com/

Folks, you are very kind and

Folks, you are very kind and I do appreciate your concern.
I had ID, I had and had and had, I did and did and did, outcome squat.
Cost to me, high.
The nervous system can only take so much.

HOPE is a real problem, as I said to the VOA rep who I reached out to, in a final bid to get the hell out of the damn woods. "please do not get my hopes up to crash me to the ground" Too many before you, have done so, for me to be able to handle it.

"No, I'm going to get you out of these doldrums"

Just my luck I got Pinocchio.

I am FRIED, the very idea of going hat in hand to another sadist, exceeds my masochistic tendencies.

I am not a beggar, if I wished to beg, I'd buy an orange robe, shave my head, and get a begging bowl.

If you wish to understand, When you get up tomorrow. You are now homeless, you are ill and you need some help. Get on the phone, and go find some.

I have now been counted, much to my amusment I was at the corner store, and helping to front some shelves, when I hear a fellow ask the clerk, I am with ...... are there any homeless people around here, the clerk looked over his shoulder at me with raised brows. I walked up and said you need a homeless person do you? Well here I am, what can I do for you? " can we talk outside" "Why not" Outside out of a car comes 4 ppl who are doing a homeless survey and outreach... They asked I told, they said you can go to... I said I went, then you could, I already coulded, well the you should... did that.

Well I am with the "coalition for the homeless" you should come see us.
I did, you did nothing and my paperwork no doubt hit the trash 3 seconds after I left.

Then out came the plastic bag, the lady held it like it was the grail, i knew what was in it. Being my evil self, I said you know it is funny that all these church groups come around to find homeless people, and give them bags of soap but no shower, toothbrushes when they have no teeth, mouthwash when they have no one to talk to.

I watched the woman begin to cringe.

You know what the homeless need........... A home.

"well I do have this bag I'd like to give you, it has a bottle of water in it with the soap"

"water I have, soap I have"

"I have a blanket"

"I have a blanket, what I don't have is a home, do you have a home in that bag"?

" no"

"Then we have nothing to talk about"

Pretenders will be my death, I am tired and trying to type on this dinky screen is hard.

I had a good day at the flea, my audiences were a joy, I got to spoil a 4 year old B-day girl rotten. Now that for me is REAL, all that you have proposed is fantasy.

I'm tired and hurting, sorry if this has come out badly, to beat to go reread.
Happy Monday to you all!

That is sad. I bet everyone

That is sad. Sad

I bet everyone here, well almost everyone, wishes that you could win the lottery and find a home.

Blake, I read your piece,

Blake,

I read your piece, understand (I really do) and respect your wishes.

However, for anyone other than Blake that may find him/herself in a similar position of a stressful rigmarole leading to the Bermuda Triangle, here are a few suggestions to garner services:

Of course, you must first meet the qualifications of the program, agency, etc. (and they're all different).

Allegedly, the "2-1-1" number is supposed to hook-up the caller to ALL the needed services in one phone call. This is a fairly new service nationwide, so it's too early to tell how effective it is (it's still not available in some places).

Some states have an online "help" guide where one plugs in relevant info: income, if any, and source thereof, # of peeps in the household, amount of rent, etc., and at the end of the questionnaire, a screen pops up detailing which services, if any, the individual (may) qualify for. In some cases, the individual can apply online for the services.

There are agencies that provide ongoing assistance, such as: Social Security (SSDI & SSI), TANF (Welfare) with a five-year lifetime cap (if that is still in effect under the Obama Administration), The VA (obviously, if a Vet).

Then, there are other agencies/programs that provide one-time help, or intermitten help:

Catholic Charaties (they are all over the world and one does not have to be Catholic to receive assistance)

Volunteers of America

The Goodwill

Vocational Rehabilitation (for anyone with a disability -physicial, mental, emotional, who is still able to work). Each case is individual. In some instances, VR will pay for medical testing (if the person is un-or under insured), training, or re-training, and a whole lot more! Each state in the US has a VR program.

NOTE: If one is turned down by a governmental run program (Social Security, Unemployment, Veterans, TANF & Vocational Rehabilitation), one must receive a letter detailing the reason(s) why services will not be provided. In some instances, one can appeal the denial, and that info must be stated on the denial letter.

Often, churches and thrift shops can help to some degree in the short-term. Saint Vincent De Paul thrift shops are worldwide and provide countless individuals with food, clothing vouchers, rent money, heating assistance and more.

Now, for the real important stuff:

If you are in a real quagmire and find you're being turned away, or being ignored:

1. Try to speak to the director, or manager of the specific program. Keep going higher, if necessary.

If that doesn't work, the next step is to:

2. CALL YOUR CONGRESSMAN/WOMAN OR SENATOR'S OFFICE PRONTO!! He/she is in office to help you!!! You'd be very surprised how quickly one can receive services as soon as a politician's office gets involved. You will not be speaking with the elected official. They have hired-hands to field calls and solve problems.

***Step 1 and/or 2 should be sufficient to "get with the program", so to speak.

Before embarking on the next suggestion, be 100% sure that you DO meet the specific criteria for the program to which you're applying.

Not really recommended, but as a very last resort if all else fails: go to the media and report your story, or post your situation online -- giving specifics, name of agency, name of person(s) and exactly what transpired. Unfortunately, embarrassing the workers' has a big impact.....but it should NOT have to come to this. Sad

Applying to any governmental agency for aid involves at least three forrests of paperwork -- it is what it is. Every application must include scads of confirmations, documentation, possible medical records, bank statements, proof of residency, rent/mortgage payments, what time you were born Eye-wink and what the weather was on the day of your glorious birth. Eye-wink Yes, it's a hassle, but it's worth the time and possible aggravation to receive needed services.

Remember......it's about YOU!!! The persons employed to help you are receiving a paycheck, have a home, probably a car, heat/AC, medical insurance, a pension plan and a lot more, so if you take no for an answer (and you qualify for the program) it's no skin off of their a$$es. Their lives will go on as usual.

I'll amend this later for the things I've forgotten to include.

PS....I miss Jane. Sad I just know she would be replying here that I'm wrong about something, or I left out something important.

Sasse, Good news, the city

Sasse,

Good news, the city in a gesture of brotherly love, sent men out to find me this morning, they were heavily armed for some reason...

Being the shy woodland creature that I am, I avoided them.

Their persistence is touching, though.

blake2go wrote: Sasse, Good

blake2go wrote:

Sasse,

Good news, the city in a gesture of brotherly love, sent men out to find me this morning, they were heavily armed for some reason...

Being the shy woodland creature that I am, I avoided them.

Their persistence is touching, though.

Alright, Dude!!

Whatever you say.............. Sticking out tongue Laughing out loud

Strawberry Jam

Strawberry Jam wrote:
blake2go wrote:

Sasse,

Good news, the city in a gesture of brotherly love, sent men out to find me this morning, they were heavily armed for some reason...

Being the shy woodland creature that I am, I avoided them.

Their persistence is touching, though.

Alright, Dude!!

Whatever you say.............. Sticking out tongue Laughing out loud

If I'm reading it correctly, I think Blake is referring that the police went out looking for him. Sad

blake2go wrote: Good news,

blake2go wrote:

Good news, the city in a gesture of brotherly love, sent men out to find me this morning, they were heavily armed for some reason...

Considering their demeanour the last time, they probably reasonably believed that any reasonable person would be armed to the teeth, this time around.

blake2go wrote: Sasse, Good

blake2go wrote:

Sasse,

Good news, the city in a gesture of brotherly love, sent men out to find me this morning, they were heavily armed for some reason...

Being the shy woodland creature that I am, I avoided them.

Their persistence is touching, though.

Blake I HOPE your not thinking Sasse would have caused as such. I DON'T believe so. I really wished and I remember saying be careful please!! If it's not bad enough that you suffer from anxiety already,that you would have MORE laid upon you. Sad

blake2go wrote: Sasse, Good

Sad Sad Sad

blake2go wrote:

Sasse,

Good news, the city in a gesture of brotherly love, sent men out to find me this morning, they were heavily armed for some reason...

Probably because you had reason to want to do them serious injury considering the damage they did to your property last time... Evil

Hope you can find yourself a replacement laptop blake, it must be hard to have borrow a 'puter to come and check this site out... Sad

When my body is in massive

When my body is in massive pain, I often wonder why I try to continue going on.

I understand doctors have to keep up their reputations and that is why they so often state patients are drug seekers.

I also understand there are patients who in no way are seeking drugs. They are seeking solutions.

I haven't slept more than about 3 hours (in bits and pieces) over the last four nights. I tried to sleep during the day but never found a comfortable position which did not increase my pain.

No pain meds on hand. No desire to try to get any. I am so tired of "proving" what I state and feel. I could call the doctor. I would have to make an appointment and go in to see the doctor. Typing is difficult. Thinking is difficult. Driving back and forth to the doctor? Sounds like a good idea to me...yeah, right. Considering the pain hit like a wall fell on me, and it was not gradual, there is no way I could anticipate the outcome.

When will those who are only seeking relief no longer be judged by those who are seeking a high or trying to escape from reality.

Don't worry about me. I do not intend to give up. I can't say the same for my body. Pain is stressful on the body. Stress is unhealthy for the body. So is having to prove you are not just some pill popping jacka** who wants a "fix".

This is MY reality and it stinks.

I'm going to go try to figure out a solution.

I may be back on site today. It depends. This is the perfect opportunity for some to attack what I posted. It does work well when someone is down and not at their best.

That's how vultures operate.

These are the opinions of one human being in pain.

(proofread many times to ensure I didn't make an a** of myself with a wrong word)

I am very sorry for the

I am very sorry for the reality that patients with chronic pain seem to have to suffer. I hate to see people in pain. Luckily, where I work, patients are given the medicine that they need. Only in Canada, pity.

(I'm generalizing of course - I don't really know if everyone is as well cared for in other places in Canada; perhaps not. But, from what I have seen - patients with pain in the U.S. are in much worse shape than patients in Canada.)

Maybe that is a good thing about the CMPA. Smiling

Doctors in Canada wouldn't have to worry so much about narcotics because the CMPA would protect them.

I wonder if doctors withhold narcotics in the U.S.A. because they are afraid for themselves. Doctors should not have to be afraid of doing what they think is best -
as long as it's best for the patient, and not just best for them personally.

abusedemotionally

abusedemotionally wrote:
Strawberry Jam wrote:
blake2go wrote:

Sasse,

Good news, the city in a gesture of brotherly love, sent men out to find me this morning, they were heavily armed for some reason...

Being the shy woodland creature that I am, I avoided them.

Their persistence is touching, though.

Alright, Dude!!

Whatever you say.............. Sticking out tongue Laughing out loud

If I'm reading it correctly, I think Blake is referring that the police went out looking for him. Sad

After re-reading Blake's post, I believe you are correct, AE.

Sorry, Blake -- don't know where my mind was the other night, (excuses, excuses!) but it does seem to vanish at times.

Are you being forced to relocate again? Sad

Strawberry Jam

Strawberry Jam wrote:
abusedemotionally wrote:
Strawberry Jam wrote:
blake2go wrote:

Sasse,

Good news, the city in a gesture of brotherly love, sent men out to find me this morning, they were heavily armed for some reason...

Being the shy woodland creature that I am, I avoided them.

Their persistence is touching, though.

Alright, Dude!!

Whatever you say.............. Sticking out tongue Laughing out loud

If I'm reading it correctly, I think Blake is referring that the police went out looking for him. Sad

After re-reading Blake's post, I believe you are correct, AE.

Sorry, Blake -- don't know where my mind was the other night, (excuses, excuses!) but it does seem to vanish at times.

Are you being forced to relocate again? Sad

I've got to stop writing in code, no, it was a good test of how well I'm hidden.
I knew they'd be back, I thought a week, they took two.

Was out gathering branches for additional camouflage, when I heard 4 car doors slam.
They climbed up to my old camp, I fell back to my new digs, they never came closer than 100 feet of me.
Adult style hide and go seek.

Clown 1
Cops 1

Hi Blake & All, I have

Hi Blake & All,

I have tried to find out what the eligibility requirements are and I am astounded that I can't find anything clear-cut. In fact I hope I am wrong, but I can't see where he(Blake) would be eligible according to what I have been reading. I am familiar with Illinois and a single male person here who is low income(Approx $800.00) per month would qualify to have all their medical paid for, including some dental.

I spent some part of the morning calling a number that is listed to answer questions and guess what? busy, busy, busy, then they ask for your recipient number and your social security number. It looks as if you have to already be a recipient in order to ask a question. I am really annoyed. Alabama has to do better.

Here is what I have gathered.
1. You much apply in person at the local medicaid office, probably from or in the county you live in.
2. Your income must be below a certain level, (I couldn't find out what it is)
Alabama will be less than Illinois,because the median income of the south(ala) is usually lower than up north.

3. A single person is expected to work, unless they have a disabilty. However, if you do not have enough money for medical costs they will provide that. I do not know how your homeless status fits in.

4. I would go to the local office, (you have nothing to lose-just some time) talk to a case worker and get the facts. Do not be angry when speaking to him or her. Speak from the heart and tell her or him you need help. Call the local office ahead and find out what you have to bring.
5. Do not get your hopes up- but tell yourself you do have to try everything to help yourself. If that doesn't work, you could try to work at Wal-Mart for the health insurance. They do provide some.
6. Report back, so we can plan the next move. In the meantime take some deep breaths and visualize yourself in a favorite place. I go to the beach. Sometimes I can smell the salt air. I miss it so.

Your friend,
Tomato

harleyman-6 wrote: blake2go

harleyman-6 wrote:
blake2go wrote:

But back to chicken and egg, I'm in pain, and am depressed about it, do I have a mental condition requiring an antidepressant to change my brain chemistry, or am I normal and should damn well be depressed? I have my thoughts, may I have yours.

Fibromyalgia, Blake. As an example encompasses Chronic pain and Depression...

Situational depression is a realistic thought, unless you've been uncomfortable for so long, that your mind is reaching it's limits....

Hi Blake; I can sympathise with you. I had work injury to my back; went through 2 back surgeries and am still having pain. They call it chronic pain syndrome; failed back syndrome..whatever it is -it is disrupting my life and yes, shortly after the first surgery I was diagnosed for the first time in my life with major situational depression. I don't feel like "checking out" however but I can imagine this has mostly to do with my kids. Now to top it all off my income source (Worker's Compensation) has "suspended" my benefits ; don't like my Dr.s notes which all say I can't work. The thing is -is that WSIB don't like dealing/paying with chronic pain syndrome.
Also, I was feeling more and more depressed because it seemed like the antidepressants that I was taking didn't seem to be working. I know you need a combination of "talking" to someone and that meds are not the SOLE answser. Nothing seemed to be working until a month or so ago , My Dr. tried something new and I feel slightly better (as far as getting out of bed, ect.) I have a little glimmer of hope. As far as my back; no new "miracles as of yet" Anyways, blah, blah... thats me! Just wanted you to know that I know how you are feeling. Take care

Let my masochistic

Let my masochistic tendencies, get a chance to fully recharge, then I will be off to the various places of torment suggested.

Ah bureaucracy, incompetence and catch -22's, what's not to love.

Semper merda taurorum...

blake2go wrote: Let my

blake2go wrote:

Let my masochistic tendencies, get a chance to fully recharge, then I will be off to the various places of torment suggested.

Ah bureaucracy, incompetence and catch -22's, what's not to love.

Semper merda taurorum...

A definite maybe? Eye-wink Yeah!! Cool Smiling

I'll be happy to be of assistance should you need it.

wishandaprayer wrote: That

wishandaprayer wrote:

That is sad. Sad

I bet everyone here, well almost everyone, wishes that you could win the lottery and find a home.

I know I do too...

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.